Just a little over a week after his historical fight with Brock Lesnar at UFC 91, mixed martial arts legend and five-time UFC champion Randy Couture was the featured guest on MMAmania.com’s exclusive presentation of Pro MMA Radio.
And ‘The Natural’ didn’t disappoint.
It was just two months ago that Randy agreed to make his much-celebrated return to the Octagon to defend the championship belt he no longer wanted following a bitter contract dispute that forced his shocking retirement from the UFC.
Like most break-ups, things started getting ugly after some contractual mud started slinging between the two sides. Couture was painted as a money-grubbing diva, interested only in himself and a superfight with the world’s greatest heavyweight, Fedor Emelianenko.
The UFC on the other hand was portrayed as the evil empire, crushing dreams and fighter bonuses beneath the wheels of corporate slavery. Of course there are always two sides to every story, but as ‘The Natural’ explains, things were problematic from the very beginning.
“It started when Zuffa bought the company, I ended up in a rhubarb with them over the ancillary rights back then. I was one of the few guys that had managers and agents that came from the Hollywood team that understood what those ancillary rights were and what they were worth. At the time I was the heavyweight champion so we weren’t just going to sign and give those things away – and that created an issue.”
Ancillary rights in the case of the UFC are the rights to use a fighter’s name, likeness or image and to promote and profit from that usage. They can be used in the production of spin-off products such as action figures, posters, DVD’s, T-shirts, and even video games – and can be incredibly lucrative (C. Osbourne, 2008).
Ancillary rights are a difficult thing to surrender, because the value of those rights in the long term are often hard to predict, especially in a sport that continues to evolve and become more profitable, like the UFC.
Does the Jon Fitch fiasco ring a bell?
Not rolling over on command didn’t sit well with the Zuffa brass, and Couture thinks that may have been a precursor to future tensions later on.
“I think that set the tone for Zuffa kind of not feeling like I was one of their guys. At that time Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes – those were all kind of their guys, they just signed everything over to them and let them do everything. I was still trying to control some of my stuff. I think that kind of irritated them. They pulled me out of that initial ad campaign with Carmen Electra, they pulled me out of the video game at that time, and I think that just set a tone that carried through that I felt like I was operating against.”
Those early roots may come as a surprise to some fans, who felt Randy was leaving because the UFC’s efforts to sign former PRIDE heavyweight champion Fedor Emelianenko included offering him a blank check. While it wasn’t the sole reason Randy walked, it may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back.
“The Fedor thing was a whole other thing. I was offended at that time the amount of money that was being thrown at [Fedor], at Cro Cop and some of these other guys coming from PRIDE. [Those guys] hadn’t really been there knocking it out and selling tickets and pay-per-views for the company for as long as a lot of us other guys had been.”
More than a year after walking out on the UFC, Randy knew that at his age the window for competing at the top level was getting smaller and smaller. The UFC was open to negotiations, and the time was right for both sides to try and make amends.
“At some point both sides kind of had to let things go. I wanted to get back to fighting. I could have spent another year toiling away, spending a lot of money and still not getting to fight Fedor or anybody else. You kind of have to weigh that out. The best idea for me was to try to come back, make amends and compete. You don’t want to cut your nose off to spite your face.”
Couture does not regret his decision to leave, but was concerned about how it would affect his fans.
“I hesitate always to mention money as an issue because then you sound like some spoiled athlete, you start to sound like Terrell Owens.”
No matter. All was forgiven when Randy returned in September to face the UFC’s newest heavyweight heel in Brock Lesnar, fresh off a three-round mauling of talented striker Heath Herring.
Couture went down in the second round after a flying ham-hock put him on his back. He didn’t make excuses, nor does he attribute anything that happened inside the Octagon to his time away from competition.
“I don’t think the time away was an issue. I wasn’t in any position where I wasn’t doing what I trained to do. The outcome wasn’t what I wanted but the performance was. I never felt overwhelmed by Brock. He’s a big, strong guy, no doubt about that. I felt like things were going my way, things were working, not that it was easy. I slipped that right hand but I didn’t slip it enough, he had about another four inches on his reach – and his fist is about three inches wider than most people.
Randy doesn’t remember getting hit. Aside from the stoppage, he didn’t sustain any damage and actually goes against the popular belief that Mario Yamasaki had a “Better-late-than-never” approach to stopping the fight.
“He hit me right behind the ear. It was a flash (KO). One second we were in the flurry the next second I was on the ground and I wasn’t really sure what had happened. I don’t think there was anything wrong with the stoppage. I appreciated that Yamasaki gave me some time to recover.”
Now that Couture is back, the big question is where he goes from here. There has been speculation that he could meet Chuck “The Iceman” Liddell for a fourth time in 2009, but for Randy it’s still too early to contemplate his next move.
“I have two more fights left on my contract. I’m taking it one fight at a time. I don’t know what I want to do. I would certainly like to fight Brock again, but I’m just kind of letting all this settle. I’m sure the inkling and the idea will come to me. I don’t want to make any rash decisions or do anything silly. I just want to see what presents itself and we’ll go from there.”
One of the things that has presented itself is a life outside of fighting. After successful roles in Hollywood movies like David Mamet’s Redbelt and The Scorpion King, Couture has been bitten by the acting bug and looks forward to the challenges that Hollywood presents.
“I’ve got a lot of other things going on, several other movie projects coming down the pike. It’s gonna be a very, very good year this next year. I’m trying to be smart and pick the right kinds of parts and pictures. I don’t want to just be a thug and a fighter. I would really like to play some characters and do some things that are different. I’m very intrigued by the movie process and all that stuff and it’s certainly a lot easier than getting punched in the head.”
64 Comments »
good write up jesse, I had a question for you. you said ariel has done a lot for th sport, I’m wondering what he’s done besides do great interviews? I’m being serious!
so kevin, lol what do you think of the ancilliary rights fiasco? I loved the “does John Fitch fiasco ring a bell?”. I wonder if Dana’s panties are all in a bunch to have all of that brought up again, so soon, by Couture of all people?
typo:ancillary
I just dont care for Randy anymore! He is always choosing his fights (not saying he picks easy fights). His choice of opponent is all about how much money he can make fighting that guy, other than the Fedor fight he could care less about testing himself against the best because if he did he would have JUMPED at the chance of testing himself against Nogueira who has always been ranked higher than Randy.
To put it simply, the only Randy Couture fight I would care about is against Nogueira! THere isn’t another Randy fight that appeals to me, with the exception of Arlovski or Barnett (neither which will ever happen). Arlovski was in the UFC for 8 years, why didnt Randy ever fight him? I wonder!
If Randy isnt going to fight NOgueira, then he is useless to me…..Look forward to the day when he rETIRES!!!!!
sounds like randy still has some sour grapes. he failed to mention how much more money he’s made since zuffa took over, how much more every fighter’s made since zuffa took over. zuffa has helped make randy into a multi-millionaire from fighting, wich seems alot more important than ancillary rights(imo) that may or may not come to fruition. thats why guys like chuck,hughes and tito signed off so easy. they understood this. they signed away their rights to a maybee for a sure thing. randy still come soff as a little greedy to me.
Good Post John..
couture has a career aftre fighting, outside of fighting, my point was no one is banging down John Fitch’s door anytime soon with anything other than training and fighting! The top “draws” IE: GSP, Lesner, couture maybe chuck etc are the guys getting t.v./movie deals, not fitch. I understand your stance and respect it, my point was, without the UFC, fitch is you and me!
no business sense
why, because I think the big star have a point, but john fitch didn’t. go pitch an idea to anyone in hollywood, and see what the response is! guaranteed it’s “WHO!!”
now the guys I mentioned, have a chance!
thats not the point is it though, you don’t sign away your rights to anything with out looking into what your getting for it, and of course you would try to hold out for as much as you can or more so never give them lifetime rights.you don’t know where mma is going, dana says it will be bigger than the nfl in 5 years so maybe there will be more org more games and he won’t see a penny of it.yeah dana said the video game is going to make him millions(not the fighter) but could you sell a game with dana as the fighter?
“bigger than the NFL” those are dana’s words…and my dick is bigger than John Holmses’ and I got a bridge to sell you! He signed it and said it wasn’t about the contract, it was the way Dana handled himself! You guys lost your argument when Fitch said it wasn’t the contract and that his management team told him to sign!
you lost your cerdibility when you thought he should sign his rights away for life and said you have business sense.like you said those are dana’s words and after dana kicked him out of the ufc he is going to say what ever the ufc wants to hear, he did not want to sign that contract it is already proven he was forced into to it and for the time being it was the smart thing to do, but down the road it might not be.nothing may ever come of it but NO ONE WANTS TO SIGN LIFETIME AGREEMENTS TO YOUR RIGHTS TO ANYTHING.
i bet dana could sell that bridge to you, you seem to buy everything else out of his mouth.
roy, he said he was going to sign the contract before he talked to fertitta! Do the research, he told mania the night before the blow up that it wasn’t about the contract. Are you being serious? Once again, when it comes to this part of the business, who (besides the UFC right now) is EVER going to use John Fitch in anything not related to the UFC!
You missed my point, I said, guys like lesner, couture etc, you know, guys with name recognition, would be crazy to sign this, but who the F is John Fing fitch?!
one more thing, track back, I specifically said that dana dropped the ball on this one!!
lol you missed the point kev you never sign anything for life with out looking into it first, and come on man why didn’t he sign it right off the bat than, because he didn’t want to untell they said your fired.coem on kedv you would sign away your rights to anything for life for free or at least try to negociate witch he did and got strongarmed. you lost but i will call it a draw cause you will never admit defeat.
I’m not trying to be right or wrong at this point buddy, I’m not even stating opinion any more! I’m simply saying what Fitch said was that his managers told him to sign, he didn’t because the way Dana came at him! If he’s just saying that after the fact, ok, he’s a bitch! Would I sign anything to get nothing? no! you’re right on there! My point is, deserving guys(as I mentioned) I can all but guarantee got better deals than the only guy not to sign!
your right on that, my only point is of course he is going to try to get something once he saw he couldn’t he did the right thing and signed but you don’t sign right off the bat with out trying.
yea Randy, movies, riiiight, you were soooo good in scorpion king bro! Oscar material in fact right brah, good luck after fighting
Man Randy really looks old on this one!
I love Randy, but he looks like Freddy Kreuger in this picture.
WELCOME TO PRIMETIME, BITCH!
I don’t think anyone was trying to paint him as a moneygrubbing diva. It was proved that he was. Dana ftw via salary reporting.
THATS WHAT IM SAYING!!!!!! Cmon Randy NUthuggers, hes a whore
Randy tried to exploit his employer, and thought he deserved more than other fighters like hughes and chuck, but never had as long of a reign as champ, where is the logic in that?
as for the Hollywood negotiation tactics, well you don’t discuss lumber with a steel worker?
Randy is the man,I wish he would have beat Brock he is a better fighter and Ive always wanted to see him fight Big Nog,Maybe after Brock gets submitted by Big Nog We will get to see Randy.I beg not to see him and Chuck again.Chuck deserves a smaller name like Luis Arthur Cane OR Soku,not Randy
From what I saw Randy was not the better heavyweight fighter. Brock knocked his ass out bro. Randy was starting to look tired. He did give us an answer to whether Brock has a chin…. He does. Randy could fight him five more times in a row and five the beatings would just get worse and worse as Randy got older and Brock got better. Nog or Mir would also beat the old man at this point.
What happened is that for a long time Randy was friends with Dana White and got to pick his fights. He pissed Dana off and then no more picking his fights. Then suprise he gets crushed by a guy with only 3 pro fights. He has been overrated for a long long time now. He is no long even a top 10 heavyweight.
and oh yea, WAR BROCK!!!!!, and WAR LIDDELL!!!! infact WAR ANYONE WHO SMASHES RANDY THE MONEY GRUBBING WHORE COUTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!
your a douche
agreed
yup super douche!
make fist, punch self in face, repeat…
Randy is the sh*t but I really dont want to see him fight brock again. I do think he could go right back to 205 and take the belt. I know he could pummel Rampage and Chuck (the last 2 champs besides his apprentice Forrest- who I also think he could smash). But really I just dont want to see him lose ever again if that is possible, not that I want to see him fight cans or easy wins, but big heavyweights are a stretch.
Think I read somewhere that he won’t fight Forrest, as long as Forrest holds the belt he probably won’t fight at 205.
in my opinion he’s an intelligent business man who doesn’t like being taken advantage of. if your lack of respect for an old man who could maul you was justified it would be one thing but he has worked harder than most people ever will and has earned every cent he’s made. hes got more than just himself to think about. he’s representing his family as well.
Jonsey, Couture did a few things wrong by making his resignation public and giving everyone incorrect facts about his pay whether it was intentional or not. I saw him use his position as heavyweight champ to his advantage. No different than what the UFC (Dana White) does to fighters to make them sign over their ancilliary rights, or ask them to take a pay cut on their 4 fight contract after 1 or 2 losing fights,,, or else end that contract, they use their postion to their advantage and end contracts when they see fit… Couture just really affected the fans with his decision by holding up the belt.
Couture lost some fans, due to his approach. I actually think Couture was one of the fighters that the UFC wanted to keep around even if was never going to fight again for commentating or whatever for 250 k a year or whatever the amount was. Dana White has always held a tremendous amount of respect for Couture regardless of all these issues, it’s one of the very few fighters I’ve ever seen White be totally loyal to.
In some ways Couture is correct in the way he presents the rights of a fighter over ancillary rights, UFC contract negotiations & fight pay. On the other hand it’s a business and Dana White is the best at securing the interest of the UFC at all levels, even if it’s not fair.
However, I don’t agree with Couture that he is not in the ‘good ol’ boys’ UFC club, hell he was making a % of pay-per view, only a few fighters can do that. Couture’s issues do apply to lots of other fighters that are not treated better. Couture probably has a hard time being so close to White while watching him do what he does, I can see Couture’s points, but I don’t think they necessarily apply to him being treated unfairly by the UFC.
Jizzo, should be jizzonmeRandyPlease!!!??? Quit nuthugging, Randy dissed all of us fans by leaving us for a year, he was my favorite fighter until he went hollywood
i dont recall even saying i liked randy…just quit flapping your gums on the keyboard.
i also really hate the “nuthugger” comments. serious just shut the hell up if thats all you can say. Just cause there is fighters your fans of doesnt mean your huggin there sack. seriously fucking stupid comment whoever started that shit. grow up!
Haha! Kids!…It’s the kids!!!
By the way ‘the Dude’ your no Lebowski
and u are Bro, way to be! ur the man lebowski, good comment!
randy takes shits bigger than you dude.
I don’t think most breakups involve contractual disputes.
Also, it sounds like, for all the negotiating Dana and the Fertittas do, they don’t seem to enjoy the idea of negotiating with their fighters much. Does it hurt them to stoop to that level?
Dana, business shouldn’t get you down, it should get you off!
randy couture as a thug? lol!
Chuck deserve’s a smaller name… HAHAHAHA are you kidding me, I mean seriously. Oh where do I start, your boy Randy, i mean Captain Chump. Retire’s and goes to do commentating. Great commentator. Great Fighter as well, always has a good game plan for every fight. But here is where the brakes come on. I realize that the HW divison was slim, but he comes out of retirement and gets a automatic title shot with Timmy. Not to mention he was comming off 2 loss’es. How nice to get a title shot like that. He did beat timmy, but really whats that saying, well all know Tim sucks. In order to come out of retirement he ( Captain Chump ) negotiated his own contract which the UFC approved. A 4 fight contract. After he beat Gonzaga, he got Money hurt and Ass strapped because he think’s he can hold a candle with Fedor, HAHAHAHAHA, we all know Fedor would crush him like a bug. Captain Chump’s record is 16 and 9. He Fuking lose’s more than he win’s. I realize Chuck hasnt done much lately, but why even put a Chuck vs Randy matchup again to see Randy catch another Knock Out by Liddell
Randy Couture needs to go away I am sick and tired of this Captain America shit the guy has no loyalty.Tito Ortiz helped him train for fights and then when Tito signed to fight Forrest Griffin,Randy was helping Forrest prepare for Tito.Luckily it did him no good.Randy should start preparing for The Scorpion King 3.
Robert — Yeah, whatever.
LMFAO
At yourself I assume.
assumption is incorrect…
If Randy fought Chuck now it would be like the first fight.Randy would own Chuck.He is a much better and smarter fighter now.I think he could own the light heavyweight devision for that matter.P.S. Tito is a joke!
Dont get me wrong,I really like Chuck.I just think at this point Randy is the better fighter.I think he was doing great against Lesnar.I would have love to see what things would have been like if it had made it to round 4 or 5.
Randy was doing great how because he didn’t get beat in round 1? He kept talking about putting Lesnar on his back leading up to the fight and didn’t get 1 takedown.I thought he was going to blow out his back when his old ass tried lifting Lesnar with a takedown attempt. Randy needs to go back to South Africa and start filming Scorpion King 3 because his fighting career is over.Randy is the definition of yesterdays news.When the PPV numbers come out for UFC 91 it will be far below Dana’s prediction of 1.2 million.
you do realize lesnar was going down, right? He grabbed the cage to keep from falling. He beat randy for sure but the fight could have went very different if he brock didn’t grab the cage. Randy on top with his opponent up against the cage is a great position for Randy.
“At some point both sides kind of had to let things go”
When you say both sides Randy you mean you were getting Litigated into a corner and you missed your precious Money!
“BOth Sides” what a joke.
let me just say that whoever isn’t on Randy’s side with this whole story is just incredibly ignorant and should start to watch other sports and actually learn something..
I do think randy’s choice to leave the UFC was made poorly. i missed him. as far as getting a title shot against sylvia right away…hell the hw division has been lacking for a while. and yes, tim sucks. and being that much bigger and younger and still getting his a$$ whupped just highlights that. Couture is still a great fighter. dont talk smack about a guy that is 45 and could beat down anyone on this board. plus, hes really helped get the sport to where it is today. nothing but love for couture.
Word
Listen saying Tim sucks is stupid I know he can be boring and I’m no fan for sure but aside from Mir he’s only lost to top guys and won the heavyweight championship twice.Look at the guys record he’s done quite well for being a below average athlete with no quickness and people who missed Randy must have been crying like little girls when his old ass was get hammer fisted and the big welcome back fight turned into a fuckin joke.Randy is done!I think behind closed doors Dana White is laughing his ass off about it to.
randy’s choice to leave the ufc was wrong, i’ll agree. however, he is still a great fighter. yeah, sylvia sucks, we all know that, but just his size advantage should have at least won him a round or two. please dont hate on couture. a man that is 45 and competes at the top of the toughtest sport in the world, and has helped get mma to where it is today deserves respect. i think he should get the loser of big nog and mir, then fight the winner of brock and winner of nog/mir for the title, then retire for good, with the belt. nothing but love for couture.
i think there were poor decisions made on both sides, by couture and the UFC. but you dont side with a multi-million dollar organization over a fighter. sorry. even if randy had some bad judgment along the way, its important to see a fighter stand up to the UFC, even if he doesn’t win, or loses fans. like most of the turncoats jibber-jabbering in the above comments.
if you don’t think it’s important for fighters to have a beef over certain contractual issues then look back to last week’s fitch debacle. the UFC made MMA what it was, and most fighters dont complain and surely get paid well. and the sport is still young and it takes time to build up to massive salaries and effective player’s/fighter’s associations, and you have to be realistic about the current profitability of the entire market (see NHL). but still, the UFC is a business and their product is the fighters and the fights. i do believe they care about the sport, but they will take as much from the fighter as they give them. randy’s beef with them might have been about money as well, but it’s still a legit concern. even if it was handled wrong. just for someone to say, hold the f**k on, where is this gonna end up if we sign off on everything they want.
i think couture’s concerns were validated by the fitch fiasco. and im sure that situation got the media attention it did because of high profile fighters like couture and their critique of certain widely accepted business strategies of the UFC.
regardless, to see people rip couture like he is dana white is disturbing to me. couture’s level or respect with other fighters, his quality as a trainer of fighters, and his legacy in the ring should be worth more than this bipolar armchair-warrior fanboy abuse.
i didn’t like the way this all went down either. but i’m not about to pretend i know the whole story inside-out, because nobody commenting on here really does. so until that day comes, i am going to give randy the benefit of the doubt. as i would with any fighter. a corporate juggernaut like the UFC might have a longer way to go.
word hardcase. i agree with everything in your post. i am confused about one thing though…what happened with fitch and the ufc? i must have missed a memo. sorry to be so un informed, please enlighten me.
Randy is the man and i hope he can get a rematch with Brock but i would definitely want to see him fight the loser of Nog vs Mir.
We can’t wait to see u compete again Randy.
You nailed it Hardcase! I think Dana White enjoyed welcoming Randy back by putting him against a monster that would really pound him. Do you think he might have told the ref not to intervene too quickly, because there was some posts complaining about the late stoppage.