UFC President Dana White all but confirmed the blockbuster New Year’s Eve weekend match up between welterweight champion Georges St. Pierre and lightweight titlist BJ Penn at the UFC 87: “Seek and Destroy” post-fight press conference, putting the wheels in motion for perhaps the biggest night of fights ever.
Typically, the end of the year pay-per-view (PPV) event is the promotion’s biggest with its biggest stars all on one card. And with Antonio Rodrigo “Minotauro” Nogueira defending his heavyweight title against Frank Mir, St. Pierre putting his 170-pound belt on the line against Penn and a likely appearance by Wanderlei Silva and others, it’s safe to say that the promotion is set to close 2008 in dramatic fashion once again.
He did not confirm, however, that the fight will take place on December 27 … just that the fight between St. Pierre and Penn will “happen” and he will then “figure out what will happen at 155.”
That essentially means that Penn will not have to vacate his 155-pound title to challenge “Rush.” In fact, Penn sounds as if he’d like to defend both titles simultaneously if he can defeat the Canadian.
That could all change real fast, however, depending on the outcome of the fight. Therefore, it makes sense that White is taking the “wait and see” approach on this one.
Penn and St. Pierre have already met inside the Octagon at UFC 58: “USA vs. Canada” in 2006, which resulted in a controversial split decision win for St. Pierre. Penn brutalized St. Pierre for much of the first round, but then he stormed back and hung on in the final two frames to get the winning nod.
Most at the time felt at the very least it should have been a draw because of the lopsided opening stanza; however, the judges ringside did not agree. Regardless, it was a great fight and the encore will likely be even better since both fighters have improved significantly over time.
And that’s a scary thing to say – these are two of the most gifted pound-for-pound talents in the sport going up against one another in the prime of their careers. Its historical significance cannot be overstated.
Lost in all of this, of course, is Kenny Florian who defeated Roger Huerta to become the clear-cut number one lightweight contender. Don’t expect him to wait around; however, until after the St. Pierre-Penn rematch to find out what he is doing next.
Florian indicated that he would like to continue fighting top guys and doesn’t want to wait around to see what happens in the division. He intends to stay busy, and if he keeps winning, more than likely challenge whoever for the 155-pound title in early 2009.
That’s a risky move, but one that shouldn’t surprise too many folks – Florian is a gamer.
It’s good news all around. We have a fight for the ages against two division champions and a number one contender who isn’t afraid to possibly lose his title chances by taking a fight he really doesn’t need to take.
Let the good times continue to roll.
230 Comments »
MONDAY MORNING CONVERSATION:
I just want to apologize for getting all defensive this past week. Been under a lot of stress and pressure. I never used to get sick in FL, Now I seem to get sick 2 or 3 times a year. I’ve been sick for 2 weeks. My car was in the shop last week and I had a bored 6 year old to deal with all day. 2 satellites went down at work and we had to use land lines, instead of 40-45 hours I did around 60, sick! It’s a contract year (I’m union) and I want 12-15k raise, they are offering around 2000. my wife (she’s the supervisor for 3 or 4 VA pharmacies (GOVT>)) has a stressful job that I got to hear about daily. Lastly, I woke up one day last week with 2 grand missing out of one of my accounts. The state of MA decided to audit me, found an account before finding my address and helped themselves.
Anyways, I’m feeling 100% better, got my car back and am not going to lash out any more. This site is my outlet, my opinion and thoughts are from the heart. I see people bash John and I so much for no apparent reason. We put thought into our posts, sorry I don’t just put “Fedor rules” or GSP is # 1.”
Any ways, It’s been 14 years since I did it, but does anyone want to get into a mmamania only fantasy football league. first 10 are in. We’ll do a number we can all afford (100) and have some fun with it. If interested, get at me, kevjack115@yahoo. Sorry this isn’t mma related, just don’t want this site turning into how bad sherdog is with comments and someone calling someone else out in every conversation. Keep em coming guys, you’re the most fun knowledgeable fans out there!
By the way, BJ wins!!! If you won’t put your money where your mouth is, keep it shut!
Kevin, the government can take a look at your bank accounts and take money out for taxes without even giving you a formal notification? that’s madness!
lol they said they tried to contact me, but I’m not hiding, I file my taxes evry year. I wasn’t trying to cheat, I sold a house in MA after owning it a year and they’re saying I owe capital gains!
I’m just puzzled that they have so much power, they shouldn’t be able to take a look at your bank account without court petition, and they definitely should not have the power to take money without your approval. If that happened to me I’ll be going crazy and definitely take ‘em to court!
I called, it’s legal. I’m going to refile for that year (you can refile for 3 years) and add some deductions to hopefully offset the 2 grand they are planning on taking next month. They say I owe 4k and change
How can they do that? Is it anything to do with the Patriot Act?
like I said, they say they tried to contact me, I said I never got anything certified mail, so prove it, they almost laughed. They are the govt., like I said my wife works for the GOVT. they do what they want. If I owe, cool, but what if I had outstanding checks and they bounced because I had no idea this was coming. just lacks integrity and morals to me!
My my, there are gonna be so many GSP vs BJ threads in the next few months.
This is my 2c…
I think GSP will be too strong for BJ. Yes i am in awe of BJ’s skills but i just think GSP has improved so much over the past couple of years and will dominate.
Does anyone think that BJ can hang with GSP on the feet?? because i don’t. Yeah yeah, the first fight, but that was one hell of an eye poke.
A lot of it depends on how BJ puts on the extra pounds, if he can maintain his current conditioning then maybe but if a flabby BJ turns up its night night.
There are no nuthuggers like the BJ fan club but those who say he is going to walk through GSP have let their love for the fighter cloud their judgement.
GSP has got to be favourite.
I think their stand up is comparable, and bj is better on the ground. Wrestling goes to gsp, but what is he going to do? lay on bj again? every time he postures up, bj will work subs!
I agree that GSP will be the betting favorite. But the question is, how big of a favorite? Right now, I’m seeing it at about:
GSP: -155
BJ: +125
BJ will not be coming into the fight fat. In fact I recently seen him say on his website that he will be coming into the GSP fight in complete shape. He has been working with a strength and conditioning coach to build muscle rather than fat. Everyone knows that BJ is in his best shape at 155. So he is just adding muscle mass and will come into the fight at about 165 lbs and, of course won’t have to cut any wieght (water weight). That means that GSP will have about 15 lb weight avantage guessing that he weighs 180 on fight night.
The main question is = will GSP’s strength advantage be too much for BJ?
I think it will mate, GSP manhandles everone he fights. I know BJ is a God on the ground but Matt Serra isn’t too shabby and look where that got him!
I am a little bit suspect about him coming in shape, talk is cheap i just think without the pressure of HAVING to be in good shape BJ might slip back into his old ways.
It sounds like i’m hating on BJ, thats not the case i just think GSP will be able to beat him on the feet and take him down at will. Its more of how highly i rate GSP than hate on BJ.
I totally agree. GSP is the best lb4lb fighter there is. He is also the best at taking the best part of someones game and using it against them in a better fashion that you expected his opponent to use it in the first place.
Im not going to say that GSP will destroy Penn, but he will win for sure. The longer the fight the better for GSP. I truly feel that will be the case.
I can argue my case but Im sure you all know where Im coming from.
“I think their stand up is comparable, and bj is better on the ground. Wrestling goes to gsp, but what is he going to do? lay on bj again? every time he postures up, bj will work subs!”
I don’t think GSP will be doing much posturing against BJ. He’ll work leg kicks standing up, and then if he gets BJ down, he’ll pull a “Lesnar” and just keep on top of him for a decision. We know that BJ has a great sprawl, but if he can throw a knee to a shooting GSP (a la Anderson Silva ), then it’s lights out. It’s risky though, cuz if GSP catches his knee, it’s a slam.
I think its a toss up. Bet the Underdog!
Haha!! Nice advice there. Yeah, definitely could go both ways!
this is in reply to enzo-enormous
you either have to be from canada or are a big gsp fan and a bj hater cause there is no way anyone anywhere can say that gsp is bets pound 4 pound cause he has only defended his championship title once and he is not willing to move up or down in weight into any other weight class. now silva has done it bj has done it and also cotoure has done it and they have all been successful doing it .this fact and many more are what proves that these 3 plus henderson are the best p4p and as for silva vs pierre that would be a mutilation and everyone knows it this is the reason you will never see pierre go up to 185 for a title shot and bj is the only other one with a title that pierre is willing to fight
Kevin, if BJ is better on the ground, don’t blame GSP for laying on top of him, blame BJ for LAYING under him. A wrestler should be on top and a BJJ black belt should be able to sweep. GSP wasn’t just laying there,he was trying, but BJ has a great gaurd.
Hey VM, I’m not positive,but I think GSP might fight closer to 185. He said his walking around weight was 185-187 and being that he is always training, I’d imagine his fight weight would be very close to, if not the same as fight weight.
Pat, I’m not so sure anyone could even have time to think of throwing a knee, let alone the time it takes for the brain to send the message. Did you see how FAST he took Serra and Fitch down. Those have to be UFC records for the fastest take-downs, from the start of the fight ( 3-4 seconds).
Jason Probst has an excellent article on why this fight should not happen and I tend to agree with it. As much as I want to see it, it does kill alot of value for two divisions and should be given more time to achieve “super-fight” status. Right now, it will simply be a rematch.
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/for-penn-lightweight-is-right-weight-14012
I also don’t see this as being as competitive as most. At least, not at this time. BJ needs more time to effectively put on some size/weight (i.e. muscle mass) rather than just holding onto weight, which in the past has meant an out-of-shape Penn.
Penn has phenomenal natural talent with his flexibility being the most difficult thing to prepare for, but relying solely on that talent gets him surpassed by someone with talent and superior athleticism, in this case GSP.
Just because it is a topic where the two are linked side by side -the p4p debate- there is another read (which I found weird that BJ’s name was not even mentioned) that I think dissects the fighters listed and the abstracts well.
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/the-pound-for-pound-debate-14011
Mania, sorry if you dislike other site’s articles pimped on your site. Just thought these fit well into the topic
Just went through moderation and now see that I left off “yet”. Why the fight should not happen YET. Worlds difference in meaning.
Great find PJJ, that guy (Jason Probst) knows his stuff.
Comment by Gord
2008-08-13 01:40:03
Great find PJJ, that guy (Jason Probst) knows his stuff.
He also does a good job hosting Survivor
It’s cool, Kev. Like 50 Cent said “If they hate, then let them hate, and watch the money pile up!”
(Yes, I just quoted 50. And what?! lol)
NO ONE cares about your life,
Anyways, back to what the topic is… I’m betting my whole check on GSP, After watching Fitch this past weekend, i’m sure he could beat Penn. Can’t wait for this to happen, not because I really want to see It, cause I know the outcome, I just can’t wait 2 see what EXCUSES the nut huggers have 2 say when the fights over.
but BJ does everything better than firch and gsp couldn’t finish! BJ will win and I’ll be betting on that, good argument though!
bet all u want.. i hope that u have enuff money to live on…cuz u will not be winning this bet idiot…bj lost to gsp wen he was in his prime and gsp was jus coming up…now st. pierre shall dominate him…R.I.P Penn
see, I can appreciate you disagreeing, but calling me an idiot is what I mean, what’s the point? I have an opinion, you have one, we’ll find out who wins in 5 months, so if bj wins can I go on a tirade about what a douche you are? I won’t, but it would make sense!
Ha! BJ is a very good technical and natural fighter. Watching GSP there is still holes in his fighting and even he knows that. The last time Penn and GSP fought Penn wasn’t in his prime he wasn’t even training properly. It will be a good fight but it will be very tight. I’m hoping Penn will win but coming up weight might have a bad effect on him.. And if Penn does win Kevin you should go on a tirade cause Xtreme Couture doesn’t know shit, Penn at his prime when he fought GSP what fights have you been watching. He used GSP’s takedowns as a time to rest, you should actually watch his old fights and see how unfit and sloppy he was looked compared to now.
Kevin, I wouldn’t bet your tax money my friend….
Xtreme couture15 has the worst arguement ive ever heard. BJ used to be in his prime? The dude is in better shape now then ever, and back then GSP was not “coming up” he was already destroying Sherk, Trigg, before Penn, and then DESTROYED Hughes right after he BARELY “beat” Penn. GSP has always been good and always will be, and Penn showed he is better.
The whole fight will look like round 1 of the first fight.
well hes obviously in better shape…hes fighting at 155..so he better gain some sort of muscle back onto that 155…cuz if its all water weight..he is goin to get torched..gsp isnt the same fighter after he lost to serra.. i respect bj penn more than any other fighter.. i train with sam stout and ppl.. i would love to train with bj penn.. ive been at seminars with gsp and rany couture..when gsp out wrestles randy.. hes jus that damn good.. i apologize if i offended anyone..Kevin..srry for calling u an idiot.. i jus dont think betting money on it is a good idea..but good luck
How has BJ shown hes better? By beating Sherk? Beating Stevenson? C’mon.. I like BJ, and think that at 155 he is a monster, but lets be real here. GSP’s strengths match pretty well with BJ’s weaknesses. Size, conditioning, and wrestling are where Georges would dominate, and his BJJ is improving by leaps and bounds! Theres no way BJ wins this fight..
Xtreme couture15’s argument is indeed lame. Watch the fights first before declaring R.I.P. Penn. This is a toss-up as far as I see it…
Damn..it takes a big man to lay it on the line and apologize.. I certainly respect you for it.. I hope you have a better week brother!
yea…we all have our probs….
who gives a faq about yours…
faqin whiner!
Can someone explain why BJ gets a shot at GSP’s title when he’s done absolutely nothing to earn it? If anything they should do a catch weight fight where the winner takes both belts because in this fight GSP has everything to lose and basically nothing to gain. BJ has everything to gain and nothing to lose if Dana allows him to keep the lightweight title. I’m sure GSP could make 155 to defend or just vacate it after he wins either way he’s getting screwed.
No way GSP could make 155. The GSP you see fighting is about 185 lbs. He cuts 15 lbs of water and he doesn’t have 15 lbs of fat to lose, to get down to 155. No worries, BJ ain’t gaining nothin, he’s losing this fight and he’s going to bleed for once. Maybe GSP will close at least one eye for him to, he seems to like doing that now ( his last 3 fights).
heres the thing…Florian would get demolished by penn, he should be happy with this!
Who else can Kenny fight at 155lbs that wont damage his chances of a title shot? As technical as Kenny a rematch with Sherk would probably go the same way as the 1st fight with Sherk dry humping him and IMO Joe Daddy would be too strong for Kenny.
Florian deserves a little more credit. I think “demolished” is strong. But, no doubt, Bj wouldn’t have a problem winning by unanimous decision, and, possibly a technical win by submission. But I’m not going to count Florian out completely.
I say the winner of BJ Penn and Pierre fights Anderson next.
There can be only one.
If Florian sticks to his “elusive” style, he might make it to a decision (loss) against BJ. BJ’s never been agressive w/ takedowns, which is how Kenny got beat by Sherk.
I guess Kalib has turned to coaching since nobody will allow him to fight. This fight was a big disappointment none by Huerta all by Florian. I dont blame him he wanted to win and that he did. Big difference for counter striker to survive and try to win Machida and Liddel engage Florian wanted nothing to do with Huerta I dont blame Huerta for being so frustated that at the end of the fight he gave up and let time run out since Florian wasnt going to fight, and as far as the takedowns that is one of Huerta’s weakness and Florian couldnt keep Huerta down. So much for the self proclaimed “finisher”.
Nobody among the 2 should fight Anderson. That’s suicide. The Spider should just continue with his ballet of destruction at 205.
CANNOT WAIT to see BJ and St. Pierre battle again…what a fight this will be as long as BJ comes prepared (physically)
any educated guesses where this event will take place?
MSG would be awesome!
If it’s legal, then hell yeah! Why not! Nice venue that!
bj says he WANTS it in montreal
LMAO!! Imagine GSP crying like alittle girl if he loses in Montreal!!
I know I harp on it, I just hope GSP invests in a new suit for the next ppv. The 3 year old pin stripe is old
That is a kick ass Mens Warehouse suit!
Maybe it’s his lucky suite? Did he wear it for the Serra fight… Probably not.
Could they do it in Hawaii?
I’m sure they can get more fighters to fight during the holiday season if they hold it in sunny Hawaii.
you mean cold montreal isn’t a draw? lol, couldn’t agree more!!
Pat, you could have it in Antarctica, and they still wouldn’t have any shortage of guys that want to fight that night. Fighters will want to be on the biggest UFC card in history, no matter where it happens.
it depends on what day it is.. if its new yrs eve it won’t be in Montreal.. MTl always has their new yrs Rave which is by far one of the biggest and best parties anyone can go to..!!! GO MONTREAL!!!!
I think the UFC was talking about doing it in Hawaii but they said they are having problems with where to have it or something so it doesnt look good for December. Don’t take me to the bank on that one though.
I heard that somewhere too. Hawaii doesn’t have an arena big enough or something? I guess finding a hockey arena on the island isn’t very easy?
Aloha Stadium mang. 50,000+.. It will be the biggest crowd the UFC’s ever seen.
MAybe the UFC should put together a 1# Contender’s belt. Cuz with the reign of Silva, BJ, GSP amongst us…they should jsut fight amongst themselves.. This is crazy.. I’m a huge Kenny fan.. but 9.9/10 times he will not defeat BJ. Fitch was the cream of la crea of the WW’s.. Silva.. just the name has the 185 division in uproah…so just give a 1# contender belt.
lol, thats a great idea cause i don’t see these guys losing anytime soon…for 5 months at least
Maybe add more divisions. Make a 162.5 pound divison, to slot right between LW and WW. And then a 177.5 pound div to slot right between WW and MW. or just restructure the whole system, and go in 10 pound increments. I have always felt that HW was WAY to broad a range, but there just aren’t enough fighters to create two divisions between 205 and 265.
won’t happen, the unified rules changed it’s weights to do this, but UFC already says they won’t!
yeah, I feel there are already enough weight classes, if they create more it’ll become too watered down…
not so much watered down, but if they put a 180, silva would win
170 gsp
just not worth having the same chamops cut an extra 5 pounds!
The fighter’s just need to stick to there fighting weight. I know the UFC will not add more division at this time.. or maybe not ever.
The fighter’s just need to stick to there fighting weight. I know the UFC will not add more division at this time.. or maybe not ever.
The fighter’s just need to stick to there fighting weight. I know the UFC will not add more division at this time.. or maybe not ever.
We heard you the first time ; )
Not that Phil didn’t have a good idea, but cmon…a #1 contender belt? Wouldn’t that water down the meaning of the championship belt? There are simply TOO many great fighters in some divisions. Thats a great problem to have, but how do we rectify it? Adding more diviions may seem to water things down for a while at first, but over time it would be the only way. The sport is exploding too much and there’s too much young talent for it to stay this way.
Think about 20 years from now, when MMA is THE single most popular combat sport around. Kids are going to be training in MMA from the time they can walk. Kids born 3 and 4 years ago are starting to train in jiujitsu (My instructors son knew armbars at age 2). We weren’t training in jiu jitsu at that age. Imagine how good those kids are going to be when they hit 18, 20, 25, and so on. We’re only in the early stages right now. Its only going to get better as time goes by and the bar will consistently raise. We WILL need more divisions.
I think he was joking
Hey Phil, do you think the fighters just need to stick to their fighting weight?
LOL
Kev’s right.. I was joking. =P
About weight divisions.. In the UFC let it stay the way it is.. we have 5 divisions. 5 belts. That’s enough IMO.
Now with other promotions I don’t mind seeing a 160lb.. or a 175 lbs division. We can always have a catch weight match up. I know.. with more and more fighters/ good fighter’s into the mix.. the call to add divisions will rise.. but I feel today.. it should be that way it is.
Yeah, make it a Television Title.
or an intercontenintal one. lol!
Yeah, I was just thinking that if BJ wins, they’ll have an interim LW champ. I think if BJ wins, he’s not gonna go up and down 15 lbs. in weight to defend both belts. He’ll defend the WW title until he loses, then he’ll go back down to 155. It’s easier to do in boxing b/c the weight divisions are a lot closer together.
I dont think it’d be hard at all for Penn to do. Basically he’d cut the 10 or 15 pounds when he fights at 155 and just not cut weight for the 170 fights and come in at 165-170 pounds. That being said I think GSP will prove to be a little bit to strong for Penn and don’t see him being able to stay with GSP for a 5 round fight. I still think it will be a great fight though.
this is to whoever thinks penn will be out muscled by st pierre cause that is funny and very untrue cause bj penn has fought the likes of machida at 205 and machida couldn’t over power or finish bj now tell me this if machida who naturally walks around at around 220 and pierre who probably walks around at 185-190 how is pierre going to over power penn also penn will get into the head of pierre befor the fight and will probably win the fight befor the fight even starts cause the fight game is about 85% mental and if penn has learned anything which is pure athletic ability only gets you so far and the training and mental aspect of the fight game adds alot and can make you unstoppable
I guess Kenny should fight Sherk for now…
GSP is on another level right now. BJ is a beast at 155, but it almost seems like he needs a tune-up fight at 170 before he faces GSP. I like to see how BJ does against a Thiago Alves before he has the privilege of fighting GSP.
Why in the world would you want to see BJ fight Alves first? You don’t want to see the biggest and possibly the best MMA fight of all time ASAP?
I personally can’t wait for this fight to happen. I will be itching for the next 5 months to see this. BJ vs GSP for the WW title right now at this point in there careers is the most exciting MMA news to date.
Maybe because Thiago has done much more at WW and is at least near a WW title shot, whereas BJ has lost his last 2 fights at 170.
by more you mean more weight. he’s 2 fights away from a title, and that assuming he gets through diego. I like em both, and that should be a good fight. a brawler (alves) and a smart fighter (sanchez)…we saw how that goes this weekend
So what… And Alves already has a fight booked with Diego Sanchez at the end of October, which he will probably lose anyways.
Its people like you guys that hold back the progression of this sport. A year end showdown between 2 of the P4P best in the world fighting in their prime in Vegas will be so big for this sport. And you want BJ to fight Alves in what would most likey be an undercard fight of a PPV or the main event of a UFN. You guys make absolutly no sense to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I would like to see the fight, I just don’t think BJ is worthy yet. And like WebGarden said, why is he all of a sudden the #1 contender? I just don’t think BJ is on the same level as GSP.
Dana white said last week he doesn’t care about contenders, he wants to give the fans the fights we want to see, how can you complain about that? and who deserves a shot?
It’s ridiculous that BJ gets to leap the entire welterweight division and take on GSP for the belt. Baby J needs to get through at least a couple of top 170 contenders before being able to get in there with Georges.
people said the same thing the last time, when he called out a more dominating champion…he submitted him in the 1st!
There wasn’t the depth in the division then. Its a bit of an insult to the Alves/Sanchez winner IMO that a 155er with 2 straight losses at 170 comes straight in for a shot.
I know his pedigree and agree that he looks awsome at 155 but he has only defended his belt once. I think its a bit early to move up but BJ does what he wants.
I agree it seems, in the UFC, if you want a title shot, all you have to do is:
1. Be from pride (which is a legit reason to be given a title shot)
2. Be a proffesional WWE wrestler with a 1-1 record in the UFC (how the fuck did that happen?)
3. Suck dana whites dick
Having said that it would most likely be pointless to put Penn in a warm up fight because he would almost certainly beat anyone in the devision and if he loses where does that leave the developing lightweight devisions credibility? Now there are two things that can lose this fight for either of them. In one case GSP goes in with his fatal “am i good enough to win?” mentality (which i doubt at this point in his carreer) or BJ comes in all rolly polly (which may happen but is again unlikely). If neither of these things happen be prepared for a 5 round bruiser. Slight edge to GSP but anything could happen…
True, but his next two fights showed (maybe) if he took the long (true champion) road he wouldn’t even be champ. The same goes for Matt Serra. It takes more than winning 1 fight to be champion. Maybe BJ could have done it the hard way, but until he does there will aways be a maybe. Matt Serra will ALWAYS have WW champ on his record and a guy like Fitch may not. Something is wrong with that and the only way to avoid it from happening is to have every champ follow the same HARD road to the top. Don’t get me wrong though, GSP-BJ 2 is a fight the fans deserve and it is just to big to put off and risk either one losing, then the fight will lose some of it’s appeal.