First, EliteXC goes underwhelms on July 26 for its second CBS offering of “Saturday Night Fights.”
The California State Athletic Commission (CSAC) released the ticket sale information, showing roughly a third of all tickets were sold — with a hefty chunk being comped and the rest going into the nearest recycling bin.
Television draws a relatively abysmal 2.5 to 3 million viewers. Gary Shaw and Doug DeLuca “resign” to consult.
Then Dave Meltzer reports that Affliction lost millions from its first foray into mixed martial arts on July 19. In spite of a solid event, pay-per-view (PPV) numbers are alleged to be (at best … and possibly a big stretch) 100,000 buys. Good, but a far cry from the 250-300,000 buys Affliction needed to possibly break even.
Rumor has it, in fact, Affliction honcho Tom Atencio is already asking fighters to take a 50 percent pay cut for its sophomore effort in Las Vegas later this year.
However, at least on of its most talented assets — victorious Affliction “Banned” fighter Josh Barnett — has already made a public statement that his answer will be “NO” if indeed asked.
Now Japan’s DREAM (or PRIDE II, as some fans see it) is finding itself in the same murky waters. Dismal ratings have left many officials banking on its September 23 event as make-or-break for the company.
And that hardship couldn’t have come at a more opportune time for the UFC, who not coincidentally has just signed a new pay-per-view contract with Japan’s WOWOW PPV company.
Here’s an excerpt from Kamipro.com explaining the partnership:
“We finally signed a contract with the UFC on July 11. I knew this news had been rumored before we officially announced it. We used to air the UFC. We wanted to maintain our contract, but unfortunately the negotiations were broken off and we stopped broadcasting after the UFC 70 in April, 2007. They approached us again in 2008. We were planning to show the UFC in HD starting April of 2007; although the UFC terminated the contact. I remember we were very surprised and disappointed. We are basically going to show all numbering events. Their PPV packages are 3 hours. We will condense into 2 hours by picking up 5 to 6 fights.”
It seems that while every non-Zuffa promotion is struggling to keep its head above water, Dana and company are in cruise-control with the top down on the war wagon.
Still, one thing the UFC doesn’t have is all of the world’s best fighters. Though the way things are going for other promotions, that may just be a matter of time.
Tick-Tock.
67 Comments »
Tick Tock indeed.
Tick Tock, hell yea! Now hopefully people and fighters alike will see that burning bridges has consequences.
Im LMAO! at Atencio trying to get fighters to take a 50% cut. Affliction would still lose millions cause the curiousity is gone for them.
Im laughing more at when Barrnet was asked about the 50% pay-cut he said if he was asked he will say “NO”!!..
But seriously!..The Affliction promoters have the right idea, and I like the match-ups they want to bring to the MMa fans…All they have to do is get rid of the stupid concerts and WWF like production…
I really hope they do better the 2nd time around, and the next after that..I hope they can get through the gauranteed rough start anyone would have starting a new MMa promotion…I will definitely buy their next ppv..
Viva la Affliction!!
Say what you want about Dana White. He knows how to run a business. He’s not the most polished guy, but he is definately the get shit done guy.
Dana White and the UFC were no where near being profitable 5 events after they bought it. They were losing millions.
This is VERY sad news about DREAM. I really enjoy watching their events. I hope Stinky Fingers reads this so maybe he can donate a couple mil to DREAM to help keep them alive. That is one organization that I do NOT want to see go under. How is WVR doing? I cannot imagine them doing better than DREAM. The only thing they got going for them over DREAM is that they have Gomi – that’s it.
1 month after getting HDnet, and now DREAM may be coming to end. Now that is a NIGHTMARE!
lol at Stinky Fingers
That is some funny shit
“Dana White and the UFC were no where near being profitable 5 events after they bought it. They were losing millions.”
MMA was in whole different place back then. There’s no comparison. Since then the UFC has paved the way for everybody else.
VM lol! sticky, where you at?
I agree with Bane, you can’t compare what it took for the UFC to get off the ground vs what these pretenders are doing.
Affliction just stuck its foot in its mouth. They try and make a statement and pay fighters very generous salaries. Then teh next show, they are goign to ask some to take a 50% pay cut????? WTF is that??????
Dana White is laughing himself to the bank. affliction just dug its own grave. Sure Affliction will give you a hell of a payday, but then you will have to fight for half the next time. RIDICULIS. They basically admitted that the inflated salaries are not possible
We already know Fedor’s money isn’t going anywhere regardless of what Atencio says and that’s what 1.6 mil? They are going to need Fedor for almost every show for a long while to draw an audience. And unless the other athletes knew about the pay cut up front when they signed- yeah bad move on Affliction’s part.
DSmith, can you imagine if Fedor got injured for a long period of time or something? They’ve got all their eggs in one basket…and apparently they counted them before they hatched.
im not really very concerned about all these organizations… i think we kind of all knew they werent going to do nearly as well as the UFC… but at least they are making an attempt and now we have some competition. before affliction and elite xc it was like UFC Monopoly in the MMA world
if tim sylvia doesn’t agree to take more than a 50% paycut, affliction should just cut him. he’s not worth anymore than what the ufc offered him. matt lindland should take more than a 50% paycut. he’s worth about 50k per fight, not 250k. arlovski isn’t worth 500k, maybe 200-250k. barnett is top 3 so he’s probably worth his 300k. they should save 400k on timmeh, 200k on lindland, 200k on arlovski. right there is 800k they could cut off the top. with a few more tweaks to the salaries they could easily save at least 1 million dollars
Is there any surprise in this??
And yes, some might say that the UFC was loosing big money when Zuffa initially bought it, but that was in a completely different context. No way can that time be compared to now, when MMA is bigger then ever… and only getting bigger.
Strikeforce is another good example of how its done right.
uh, strikeforce is also going under lol, thats why Frank is talking about a possible match up with Lawler in Elite xc…
Dude, Shamrock is signed with EliteXC for more fights than he is with Strikeforce, thats why he’s talking about a fight with Lawler. Not to mention his only remaining money fight in Strikeforce is a rematch with Le, who won’t be back til 09.
Funny thing about a business: Once you’ve paid an employee X, they don’t want to take less. Ask the airlines about that.
People may complain about UFC salaries, but I’m quite sure they have some little MBA sitting in a back room looking at the aggregate salary pool for each event and overall, figuring out if they’re SURE they can hit the target profit. If not, that little MBA tells Dana to be a ball buster on fighter contracts or let a few expensive contracts go.
I have been coming to this website for several months now to be caught up with the latest news in MMA. I have want to comment on how great of a job D. White and the UFC have done to bring such popularity to MMA. But its ridiculous how many of u all love the UFC brand. Many of you all keep talking about how u want other orgs. to basically die in their tracks. If MMA is supposed to grow bigger than what it is now it needs several orgs. and not a monopoly. Many of u all UFC nuthuggers dont care about MMA ur just UFC groupies. Hey D. White with all the revenue UFC has some guys still getting 3,000 come on. Example NFL commisioner doesnt earn more than NFL stars come on.
Affliction is the only non-ufc org that I care about.
If you haven’t seen a DREAM event then I suggest you check out some of the fights on the net. They have some of the better lightweights out there right now and the both of their lightweight and middleweight tournaments have been great. Alvarez/Hasen was, in my opinion, fight of the year so far. The events definitely have a PRIDE feel to them and you have to love watching events in Japan with the way the crowd is. It’s crazy cause you can hear every little noise the fighters make. I’d like to see DREAM stay afloat and keep putting on more and more tournaments…I love the tournament format.
I think the lack of advertising for Affliction is really biting them now. They were aggressive with signing big time fighters to big salaries and putting together some good matches but then they didn’t do much to roll it out to the general public. There aren’t enough hardcore fans to support a new organization and they need new customers so they shot themselves in the foot by not forcing this down the publics throat with advertising.
Elite XC should not have gone to Stockton in the first place…big mistake. They should stick to places that can support a promotion like Elite XC. Even if the UFC went there it would have been tough to sell out so I’m not sure why Elite thought it would be a good idea. Elite needs a few more household names as far as fighters go. They have some great talent there and if they get a few more fighters that can appeal to the public then they might survive. I think they should bring Frank Shamrock into the fold. He draws a crowd and would give them a bit of a boost I think.
Well said, Buster..Anyone who has not watched a Dream event?..Check it out..
I really hope Dream can survive..I absoulutely LOVE Japanese MMa..I miss watching PrideFC soo much, and Dream was compensating for the lack of Japanese MMa I haven’t been able to see, since Zuffa bought Pride…
Great post Buster!
DREAM is an organization that everyone on this site should be supporting. I love Japanese mma more than most, but objectively I would still say that they have a chance, as a company to grow into something special….like PRIDE was.
I think that the only chance for the UFC to start signing the big time Japanese fighters like Gomi, Mach, Kawajiri, Sakuraba (if he still wants to fight) is to eventually start holding events in Japan. THere are some amazing Japanese fighters and its a real shame to not have them in the UFC, but this wont change until the UFC starts holding events over there.
I hope Affliction can survive. they really need TIto Ortiz, to help sell the next card. At the very least, we will still see 2 more affliction events involving some of my dream match ups.
I want EliteXC, Affliction to grow and survive, but all I really care about is DREAM. I really hope that they survive and grow!
i think that’s exactly why fertitta has taken over some of the business side of the UFC, to expand the product globally… i fully expect to see UFC events being held Worldwide(not just Europe) within the next 5 years…
Hopefully, Jacob will stop playing around and sign on to fight Babalu. I’m sure he’s trying to get something outrageous ala Fedor.
I agree Buster, I’m all for competition and hopefully EliteXC and Affliction will be able to survive, but I’m really worried about Dream, I could see EliteXC go, Affliction go, but please oh please I hope Dream sticks around!
I just hope Affliction is around long enough for them to put on Fedor vs AA, after that I couldn’t care less about them.
I know we all knock the UFC for not paying their fighters enough, but maybe they have it right if Dream, Elite and Affliction are in trouble maybe they shouldnt be paying their fighters too much too soon! it seems Dana migth have a few brain cells after all, I dnt think i have ever heard about the UFC been in finacial trouble but I could be wrong!
I agree with Haze Fedor vs AA to good to miss!
oh yeah, they were losing a bunch of money in the early days.
Exactly… until Dana and the Fertitas saved it. We should all thank them!
what saved the UFC was the TUF shows, it’s not like once Dana and the Fertittas bought the thing all of the sudden they were doing good. It was 5 long years of losing money and at one point the Fertittas were thinking about selling the UFC. Granted it was them who decided to go ahead with the TUF shows, but it was a gamble and we could have ended up with no UFC, no Pride, no nothing. We should really be hoping our best that these organizations will be able to survive, many fighters that we love to watch will not end up in the UFC.
There you go Huerta, sign with Affliction…right after the 50% paycut. You gotta be kidding me.
I know, Huerta sounded like a whiney little b. He should thank his stars he’s in the UFC right now. I hope he gets a hellbow in his eyeball.
UFC gets a lot of flack for fighter salaries and whatnot, but at least their fighters don’t have to worry about there company going out of business or being asked to fight for half of what they were promised.
affliction won’t last long either, even if no one wants to say it out loud, TUF show made ufc the brand that casual fans know, and casual fans are the ones making mma money. They far outnumber the die-hards and will probably only have enough time to watch one organization. The best thing to do as an upstart company is sign as many TUF alumni they can find on the free market because they are the fighters these fans recognize. Jesse Taylor and the like are better sellers than fedor or any of the other greats, because Coco the drunk monkey was on tv for 2 months straight. It was proven at the EXC fights last Saturday when you had Diaz & Lawler & Cyborg fighting and the ratings were worse than the Kimbo fights before them. Casual fans don’t have enough time to actually youtube the good fights and fighters.
people can say what they want, but UFC is gonna be Top DOG for a long time… If these other orgs. can’t get going and stay around then i really hope all the best fighters make a trip to the octagon… It’s time to see the best all in one place..
And If Dana and the UFC have some petty beef wth you (Barnett and Lindland) or if you not happy with the terms of your UFC contract. And we have all seen that Dana treats his favourites better than other fighters. That is why I wanted Affliction to work, it gives the fighters another choice and also you it gives fans a chance to see fighters that the UFC will not take no matter how good they are. If there is only organazation running the show, then a lot of fighter will be ‘ucked. You are looking at it from a fans point of veiw which is fair enough, but if you considred how that would effect the fighters, then you would see that point if view is a bit selfish.
Exactly, and not only that I guarantee you will see the UFC increase fighters salaries in the future, the company is still growing and is not even close to their peek yet. They are still in the works of taking the company to new grounds around the world which will increase their market dramatically. Fighters are lucky they still have a org to fight in, the UFC could be going under like the rest of them.
lol, everybody thought mma was a great way to make money, apparently it is not. let’s hope all top fighters will go to the ufc after everybody else goes out of business.
this is great theres some top lightweghts in dream and when suffa buy them the ufc will an even more stacked lighweght devision i hop they buy afliction so they get fedor and he can fight in the ufc and we will get randy back and when elite xc goes down they can get robbie lawler and he can fight silva and if srickforce go down the ufc will get cung li another challenge to anderson silva.
Was Suffa a typo or intentional? Either way I like it!!
thats not how it works maniac. The UFC bought PRIDE but they did NOT get all their fighters. If that was the case, they would have already had Fedor, Gomi, Overeem, Kawijiri, Arona, Ishida, Misaki, and all the other top PRIDE fighters that are not in the UFC.
People talk sh@# about Dana and how he pays his fighters, but he has the proper business model in place to succed. These start-up company’s are working from the front to the back. What I mean is that they are concerned with surviving in the short term in hopes to survive for the long term. Obviously number one component to survive as a start up company in today’s MMA environment is capital; secondly you need a solid business plan with year over year growth plans as well as a plan for long term viability. You can’t do what Tom Atencio did and pay fighters ridiculous amounts of money just to get them to sign and them ask them to cut their pay in half, good luck with that sale.
So I get it, everybody hates Dana and the UFC, blah blah blah, but even if all of our complaints about the UFC were justified (and some are) that does’nt mean these other orgs will be sucessful. They don’t run on the vicirol hatred from the the disgruntled mma fan. They need $$$, and lots of it. This further makes my point that fighters should give these orgs a chance to get on their feet, before they start trashing their current employer. Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side, and sometimes, it turns out it’s just petty new astro turf.
There it is!
u have 2 build a good base first! then the fighters will start seeing more $ ! its already starting 2 happen! 5 years ago fighters could not fight alone they had 2 work also!
where’d my coment go? Man it took me forever to put that little thought together. I mean thats painful man. It’s like carrying a child for nine months then whammo! theres nothing, nothing at all. It makes a grown man wanna cry. No hard feelings mania. Just please return my precious comment in safe condition.
If Afflition didn’t pay fighters like Linland and Sylvia so much money, they would have easily broke even.
As for DREAM, their next even can do really good. Their last one would have been huge if Cro Cop and Kid were not injured. If they are better and on the next card, it will do good.
Zuffa is the established business in MMA and they have been doing it right for a number of years. Love or hate Dana his business model works, they were losing money to start with but in reality they had no competition in the USA who could damage them and eventually with massive help from TUF they are making mega money.
As mentioned by other posters competition is good for the fans as we get more fights and events however apart from Afflictions event are we getting quantity over quality?
Competition is good for the fans, but I for one am selfish. The UFC is by far my favorite promotion. From the intro music, to Rogan and Goldberg, to the fighters themselves. I would like nothing more than to have all the best fighters under 1 roof. I would be willing to pay more for 1 PPV a month in the UFC rather than having to pay for 2 a month now that we have Affliction. I think if most people really thought about it they would agree.
Just because there are more promotions doesn’t necasscerially mean more quality fights. You mean to tell me if the UFC had some of the best Dream, XC, Affliction, and Strikeforce fighters, people would complain, I wouldn’t. Don’t you think we would just get more fights in the UFC since their stable of fighters would be bigger. More fights, better fights, and free UFN’s on Spike.
UFC is my favourite promotion too but mainly because none of the bigger/upstart ORGs are on UK TV. (Cage Rage is but enough said) Im up at 3am watching any UFC event live, going to bed at 6am and up to go to work on a Sunday at 8am. Mid week fight nights are worse, I dont go to bed!!
I would watch any other organisation for the entertainment and to gain knowledge of fighters I have not heard of before but there is no coverage and I end up watching it on the internet when & if I can find it.
if you’re watching Dream you are.
I would be sad to see either org go. I love the Dream tournaments and thought the Affliction event was very entertaining. But honestly, how did Atencio think he was going to break even when he paid his fighters that much. Three hundred G’s for Lindland? Sure he is skilled and highly ranked fighter but who would ever pay to see him fight? Not me. The only reason I got the Affliction PPV was for guys like Fedor, Arlovski, Barnett, Aleksander, Babalu & Vitor. Tim Sylvia while a well known fighter, does not deserve $800,000.
They had the right idea with the event, but as far as the pay scale they are digging their own grave.
Dream needs to stick around. It’s last three events have blown away anything UFC has put together in long time. And I don’t know about the TV ratings, but all of the last Dream events looked like sell outs IMHO.
Hey at least Timmy will still get $400,000.
which is way too much anyway..
if he wants to keep his pay per second of 22.000 dollars/s intact he will probably last 18” this time
I don’t think the japanese are very much into PPV, definitely not as much as the US market. It would be a mistake to assume that the UFC will be a success over there with the exact same strategies as here, except for their successes through Spike TV.
I m with ya i want AA/Fedor then it can crumble
In other words to all upcoming MMA organizatons out there, please don’t put the cart before the horse, cuz what you’ll get is good Louisiana road-kill.
“cruise-control with the top down on the war wagon” – Classic. If barnett says no, then arlovski will say no. Though Fedor has already been paid most of his contract upfront he will do it for the ppv revenue. So we will be forced to see Fedor-Rizzo and Affliction will fold without the heavyweights. If Dream folds in September, Cro Cop returns to UFC and Fedor and Barnett fights cans. So instead of Cro Cop-Fedor II we get Cro Cop-Nogueira II.
the problem most people dont understand is you as a company in mma you can not pay your fighters that top money (800,000 tim come on) thats a dumb move especially when you do not have a solid base in this sport and have high costs. If your a start up company you have to work your numbers out first there is alot of planning involved….Not to mention the great expense of putting on a show….if your paying your fighters more than your cost then thats stupid….I hear everyone bitch about the UFC and there payments to fighters but have you not noticed how much better the quality of there shows are, im sure they put alot of money into there shows alot of money just look at differnt mma shows and you will see what i mean and not to mention the amount of show the UFC puts on per year really think about it….Plus those fighters are getting sponsor money too so even if they make 30,000 for a fight they are walking away with about 40 or 50 maybe even more depending on the sponsors …I think as this sport grows bigger you will see bigger payouts if the UFC was not here there would hardly be opprotunities for many fighters to showcase there talent.
it doesn’t bother me that they’re going broke because their cards are STACKED!!
I have to admit, of every event this year, DREAM 4 and 5 blew away every other event with the possible exception of UFC 84 (didn’t even get to see the others). With ease, at that. And that’s about all I care bout. DREAM makes consistently compelling matches, which nobody else seems to be capable of doing. UFC’s talent pool is quite a bit more shallow than anybody wants to admit (LHW excluded).
And why is that Speedy, because of stupid upstart promotions, with one promotion you would see all the best of the best going against each other, you just proved my point right there. PERIOD…. Anthony
I just had to write this because I am so tired of all the complaining about the UFC. This is the thing you all, for all of you UFC haters. Everyone who says that more promotions is good for the sport is nonsense. If all of the fighters were under one promotion then you all would see your dream fights. Thats what people want. I mean, look for example, for those who said that Dana and them have a monopoly, NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, thats just to name a few. The best athletes in those sports are under one promotion. For this sport to get bigger it has to do what those leagues did and have one promotion that is doing well with money and can take a loss if one or two pay per views lose money. Start up companies will never understand this. I for one would much rather see the great of all promotions under one roof fighting each other. Hell, let UFC buy all of them out, and keep their respective named promotions, then you would basically have what Boxing has now, with fighters cross promoting and unifying titles and such. It just makes more sense and then all fans would be happy.
As far as the pay goes, yes, the UFC does not pay exactly what they should be paying their athletes RIGHT NOW. But again, look at the rise of the NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL. At the start up, which is basically what the UFC and MMA is right now, a start up sport, salaries were not that huge in those sports. Give it time it will get better for them and bottom line is UFC will be the last man standing in the end. Why burn your bridges (Tito, Randy, Roger) It makes no sense to me. No one fighter is hreater then the sport. PERIOD. In order to get the salaries they want there can not be other promotions, once UFC is on top with no others to compete, then everyone, EVERYONE, will watch the UFC and there salaries will go up. Plus people say that Dana and them pay the fighters they like more, no they dont. They pay the fighters that succeed the most more. Basically the same thing that other sports do. You dont see new comers to Baseball making what A-Rod or Manny make do you. Same thing goes for something closer to the same sport as MMA with boxing, you dont see new comers or losers making what Maywether or DeLahoya make do you. Quit complaining and whining about the UFC like the fighters do. They will always whine because they are the ones trying to negotiate contracts. Dana does pay fighters, ask Tito what he really made in his prime a year with UFC, ask Randy, which as already been shown by the pay stubs. THis is how sports survive. UFC has the perfect model in place to succeed with MMA. Sooner or later, tick tock, tick tock, others will see the light, and come crawling back to the UFC because there is no other place to fight. The best of the best are already in the UFC anyway, except a very few, I dont know why you would want to watch another promotion with a bunch of washed up UFC fighters in the firtst place. THis is not like playing video games you all, they cant just always be good, and that is why when they whined they were let go by the UFC with no hassle from them (Tim Sylvia, Tito, and others).
Plus look at what the UFC is attempting to do with their fighters and promotion. In example, the toys, the clothes, and going global, all of this means money for fighters. SO quit bitching and all MMA fighters that fight for UFC will in the long run be rich…. Plain and Simple End of Story…….. Anthony