Anderson a can?? BJ wont even be able to handle Rush. I really dont understand why many of you beleive he could take 170. Peirre would smash this guy, AGAIN.
Comment by naturalshadow
2008-07-10 15:20:50
If by “it” you mean a huge knee in the face, and a knockout loss, then yes, B.J. takes it at 170.
Comment by Josh
2008-07-10 15:54:47
Smash him, again? When did he ever smash him? He barely eaked out a decision, when BJ was in bad shape. And when has BJ ever suffered a knockout loss?
Comment by Smokes
2008-07-10 17:55:09
And when BJ poked him in the eye, don’t make excuses BJ lost and in doing so he lets GSP feel more comfortable in a rematch. This is why its hard to beat a guy whos beaten you, its because he has nothing to fear fighting you, he knows he won and he can do it again
BJ is too short for Spider and he’s gonna have to gain weight up to 185 and will become too fat and likely to gas out quicker. I don’t see BJ will beat or compete with Spider.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Josh
2008-07-10 12:56:37
Agreed, that is why I said 170
Comment by ViolentMike
2008-07-10 12:59:54
I don’t think so either. BJ’s only chance at beating Anderson would be to sub him off of his back. But if they were to fight, there is no way Anderson would lay in BJ’s guard. He’d end the fight standing.
Bj’s standup has really improved, but he is primarily a boxer. Anderson is a mauy thai specialist with precision accuracy. Not to mention that BJ would be short and fat and Anderson is tall and rangey.
Comment by Josh
2008-07-10 13:02:43
Really? BJ’s only chance is off his back? I guess his reputation has proceeded him here.
Comment by Nick J
2008-07-10 13:15:57
Agree with VM, Anderson is not stupid… he would just give BJ a working over from range.
Anderson a can?? BJ taking Anderson??
Not even in BJ’s fantasies. He wont even be able to pass Rush.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Josh
2008-07-10 14:24:58
He will beat GSP. Although he might not be able to take Anderson, he won’t be submitted or KO’d.
Comment by naturalshadow
2008-07-11 04:01:17
Why do you think that Silva can’t knock him out. B.J.’s striking is not even comparable to Anderson’s. B.J. fans are absolutely the most insane. Next I will be hearing that B.J. would be too big to fight Brock Lesner, or have too good a chin to be knocked out by Liddell.
This guy has no clue, Matt Hughes worked BJ over. Silva would have a first round KO on BJ.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Ade
2008-07-11 05:44:34
It didn’t look like Matt Hughes was working BJ over before he suffered a cracked rib in there last fight. BJ was absolutely destroying Hughes in the stand up and on the ground, it was so one sided it was ridiculous. Without doubt BJ’s cracked rib saved Hughes from getting the same sort of beating GSP gave him. And if you do not think so you need to watch that match again.
I think if Forrest is a 2-1 dog I would have to take him against anyone. He just keeps showing up in these big fights.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by john
2008-07-10 12:03:39
Randy won the 1st fight. Chuck won the title in the 2nd fight, so he wasnt the champ when the lines for that fight were released.
Could he really be the favorite against Chuck Liddell?
Comment by PW
2008-07-10 12:21:53
Lines are set based on where oddsmakers think the money will go, not who they believe will win. Liddell would probably be a fairly heavy favorite over Forrest, just because he’s The Face of the UFC and is more well-known to mainstream audiences even than Forrest. If Forrest were to fight a lesser-known fighter like Machida or Thiago Silva then Forrest would be favored.
Comment by john
2008-07-10 12:25:17
PW: Thats my point exactly…no way he will be favored over the UFC’s posterboy.
I do agree that he would be favored over Machida and Thiago, simply because very few people know enough about them to bet on them
Comment by ViolentMike
2008-07-10 13:03:18
I don’t know. I don’t think that there are very many fans that gamble on the UFC that know Chuck Liddell but don’t know who Forrest Griffin is.
And John, I see Forrest being about a +150 underdog to Liddell, Chuck -200.
I do agree that he will most likely be underdog in his title defense (notice I kept that singular), and I agree that if he is more than a +200 dog, my money is on Forrest.
Comment by Nick J
2008-07-10 13:17:40
AA vs Sylvia 3 i think Timmy was the underdog.
Comment by eightyproof
2008-07-10 13:38:20
randy was the underdog vs gonzaga wasnt he?
Comment by john
2008-07-10 14:04:35
VM: Forrest being champion should be great for gambling. I think your odds predictions for Chuck/Forrest are accurate and yes if he is +200, then u would have to go with Forrest.
My Question to u mike, If the uFC doesnt give Chuck the title shot that we all think he will get and they choose to give it to either Rampage or Machida, what do u think the odds would be for those title fights?
Title:
Forrest vs. Machida…..odds?
Forrest vs. Rampage…..Odds?
Comment by ViolentMike
2008-07-10 15:27:47
Honestly, in a rematch with Rampage, I think that the odds would actually be pretty even, VERY even. All of us that lost money on Rampage would bet twice as much the second time around to try and win it all back, however, that may not be such a good idea…. I think that Rampage would start out as the early favorite, but the odds woud quickly change in Forrests favor. (like the Cote/Almeida fight where Cote opened as the favorite but ended up being a dog to Almeida’s -145
And for Machida, I think that Machida would have to be the favorite in the smart bettors eyes. However, the mainstream publics eyes will see Forrest as the favorite, but not much. Perhaps Forrest -135 Machida -110.
franklin needs to stay the f@$# away from silva period!!! if silva moves up than what’s the point for franklin? he needs to keep being the gate keeper for mw or go to another organization. sux bc hes an awesome fighter that represents the ufc extremly well!
What? Thats crazy your telling me because he can’t beat Silva the 2nd best MW in the world should quit and go beat up on some weaker competition. Besides the UFC would not pin Franklin and Silva against each other in the LHW division either when they know the out come. I don’t see why if there really is no good competition for Franklin or Silva at MW that they shouldn’t move up to the LHW and start some chaos. Those two are skilled enough to fight anyone and make it an exciting and great fight. They would just add more depth to a division that is already chest deep in skilled athletes. Who at MW is cause for concern to Silva or Franklin? Okami is the only guy and Franklin decisioned him and Silva was laying a beat down on him during their first fight. Hendo is a natural LHW so Silva and Franklin can always have a fight with him at that weight class as well. Honestly I don’t see any bad point to the two proven best MW’s trying their hand at LHW. If you combine Franklins and Silvas win records you’ll see that they’ve torn the MW division apart and I would never want to see Franklin leave the UFC to fight for some backwater org.
i agree. i don’t think that they should move up either. but if that’s what dana wants then it will happen. and what do you think will happen if silva ever became lhw champ? bottem line is that if they are both dominate in any division that they will have to fight again @ some point in time and i can’t see it turning out well for franklin.
Henderson, Cote and Bisping would all be great fights at middleweight for Rich Franklin. Silva has no competition at 185 but Franklin definitely does. He can move to LHW but he won’t do sh*t. Matt Hammil is going to pound his *ss.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Smokes
2008-07-10 12:47:06
Do you really think Hamill will beat Franklin? Thats just silly. Cote is a straight stand up guy that would get eaten alive and though Bisbing is fighting at MW now he and Hendo both could face Franklin at a LHW as well. This would let the fights be a little more explosive as they won’t have to cut as much weight and Franklin is a pretty big MW he’s a good sized LHW as well.
Comment by ViolentMike
2008-07-10 13:05:44
Are people really talking about the MW division and completely overlooking Dan Henderson? His next fight is at MW, so my guess would be that he is currently a MW fighter … that would defeat Rich Franklin in a main event of PPV.
Comment by Smokes
2008-07-10 14:19:43
Its nice to speculate but nobody is over looking Hendo my friend. I’m just saying that if it was really a big deal that Hendo and Franklin fight each other they could pull it off at LHW as well. I also think Franklin will take Hendo but don’t get me wrong I know Hendo would go into that bout being the favorite and has more oppurtunity to beat Franklin.
Comment by ViolentMike
2008-07-10 15:28:39
Oh no Smokes, I wasn’t referring to you. You mentioned Hendo, several people above you didnt’
Comment by randy murders
2008-07-10 17:27:54
i gotta think the betting favorite would be franklin based on popularity since franklin is on a lot more tv shows and stuff he’s more known to a casual fan who likes to gamble as to a dan henderson who just fights and doesn’t market himself much outside the cage
You hit it right on the money homey. Dana white think he is slick but anderson silva and his camp is far from stupid and so are the real mma fans that know the business such as yourself chris. dana would love to force Anderson Silva out of the 185 division, have him relinquish his belt, then have franklin fight some nobody for the title then there poster boy will be running 185 again. the same will happen in the 205 division with chuck liddell too. now that they gave that crappy decision to forrest, i bet they give chuck a fight with Forrest before they give rampage a rematch so chuck can be champ again too. everything is lining up perfectly for Dana white and his friends to give them another title, except Anderson isnt leaving his title vacant for nobody. Forrest might not be that easy of a match for chuck either.
Any other conspiracy theories you jokers buy into? CIA killed Kennedy? The cover up at Rozwell? The moon landings were fake? He asked, not forced, Silva to step up in weight to add some more excitement to the division. Silva isn’t LEAVING MW. And he has no plans to vacate his title, as if he did, whoever held it would simply be a paper champion. And Rich Franklin, IMO, would not WANT to be a paper champion as he and Silva hold each other in very high regard.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Smokes
2008-07-10 10:46:18
Thanks Cheff, I tried correcting these crazy theories as well but my post got blocked. So I’ll straighten up the Chuck fiasco here. Chuck vs Rashad was called a number one contender match before Rampage and Forrest even fought. This means that they originally planned for Chuck to have a title shot against Rampage so I don’t see how they secretly are trying to cut Rampage our of the picture. Not to mention if Chuck beats Forrest who do you think will be next in line to face Chuck? More than likely Rampage
Comment by Nick J
2008-07-10 10:48:59
I couldn’t agree more Chef!
As i was reading elmo’s comment i was thinking exactly the same thing… come on guys enough with the conspiracy theories.
I agree that Dana may pull a few strings but in terms of the champion juggling you’ve described i very much doubt it.
It is hard for Rich tho, there is no way he’ll run back down to M/W if Silva stays at L/HW it would be so obvious he’s scared.
Thing is he could hang around at L/HW for a couple of years, make some money from fighting the A-/B level fighters and then retire, thats got to be what his plan is.
What are you talking about? Being conspiricy theorist doesn’t make you hardcore fans. They have already stated that if Silva moves up he will retain his belt and defend it like normal. His defenses will be kind of scarce because he’d be fight two weight classes and continual weight gain and loss can really hurt you. So if anything they making the MW division worse because there will be less title defenses. Also in regards to Chuck getting another shot at the title. This was also stated before the Forrest Rampage fight even took place. I suppose they planned for a lazy Rampage to show up and not KO the guy everyone in the world thought he was going to. Seriously give the fighters some more respect and do some research before calling out the conspiricy theories.
Number one Rampage needs to work his way back up.
Two, Chuck dont deserve another shot yet.
There are other fighters that have been more consistent in their wins and deserve a title shot firt.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Josh
2008-07-10 14:26:51
Rampage deserves an immediate rematch, probably in October. Chuck doesn’t deserve a shot before Machida.
Dana loves silva. people want to see exciting fights and anderson does just that. every casual fan i know loves anderson. cause they know they’ll see a beat down.
If franklin wins a few more fites he should get another shot at silva, just b/c u lose twice doesn’t mean you cant beat a guy. In pride guys have fought each other many many times. Franklin was clearly dominated in both fites but in the second fite he did show some offense. If he gets a rematch with silva he needs to go to a different camp that can break this guy down and exploite silvas weaknesses
It won’t matter what Franklin wants to do.. it’s what Anderson Silva wants.. and he wants..he gets…Franklin hanged with Silva part of the RD1, till eventually Silva flipped. Guys..I don’t care if they rematch 1000X..Silva will win every time. Even at 70yrs old Silva would tear Franklin apart.. Franklin wants nothing to do with Silva.. if he is not smart and fights Silva again.. he may have the same fate as Jardine after the Wandy fight.. to add to his metal pins holding his noise together..he’ll need wires to keep his jar together.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by DJ
2008-07-10 11:43:15
Agreed… Franklin was totally outgunned. He knows it, Silva knows it, Dana knows it and we know it.
Comment by ViolentMike
2008-07-10 13:10:23
Yet people still argue that he would have a chance in a re-re-match.
At least Hendo won the first round, and he has only faced him one time as opposed to two.
If Anderson fought Rich 100 times, Anderson wins all 100.
However, if Anderson fought Hendo, I do not see Anderson winning 100 times.
Comment by Smokes
2008-07-10 17:59:45
I didn’t say Franklin would take him to the ground and beat him or anything but thats Franklin’s only hope of beating Silva. Franklin has an underrated ground game but it isn’t strong enough to submit or even gnp Silva. I don’t think Silva will beat Franklin 100 times out of 100 but I get your point. Franklin has some power in his hands so he stands a chance to actually beat Silva just not nearly as much as Hendo does. Seriosly if Franklin is that far gone to Silva everyone else is that far gone to Franklin so its sick to think who could honestly take Silva. I think Okami beats him in his title match but 99 times out of 100 Silva would beat Okami. I’m just saying the underdog is going to win this match.
Did you think Franklin was going to defend his title successfully against Silva the first time??
Did you think Franklin was going to make the proper ajustments to try to defeat Silva the 2nd time?
Did you think Lutter was going submit/defeat Silva?
Did you think Nate M. was going to dominate Silva and Gnp him to defeat?
Did you think Henderson was going to expose Silva’s weaknesses?
Did you REALLY feel that Okami= Super Under Dog.. will defeat Silva?
Comment by Smokes
2008-07-11 12:19:48
Yes I thought Rich was going to defend his title against Silva the first time,
no I didn’t think he was going to make proper adjustments to get it back but I really hoped he could pull the win off cause he’s my favorite MW,
No I didn’t think Lutter, Nate, or Hendo would beat Silva
No I don’t think that Okami will beat Silva because Silva is the more skilled opponent but I like Okami more and I think he does stand a chance at beating Silva so I’ll will be picking Okami
Also I didn’t think that GSP would beat Hughes
or that Serra would beat GSP
or that Penn would beat Sherk
or that Randy would beat Sylvia
or that Sylvia would beat Arlovski
or that Forrest would beat Rua and Rampage (but like Okami I picked Forrest to beat Rampage even though I thought Rampage was the better fighter)
You get my point man, and Silva has lost 3 times so the guy is not undefeatable. give it a rest and learn that it is ok to pick the underdog no matter how huge of an underdog he is. If I’m wrong no harm done but if I’m right thats 5 million people who are wrong, so when its a favorite fighter of mine I’ll pick him to win like Hughes, Franklin, Okami, Arlovski, Sherk, and Forrest.
Agree to a point but the thing is do you recon Rich would actually want the fight let alone what the fans/UFC want?
You could see in his eyes after the onslaught at the end of the 1st round (in 2nd fight) that he was done mentally.
He does not think in his own heart he can beat Silva so the battle is already lost. I feel for him but in every interview since the second fight defeat is written all over his face.
that’s definately the problem, he’s mentally beat to fite the guy. Its what everyone in that division has. They’re scarred sh*tless of the guy and they shouldnt be. Yes he’s the best fighter in the world, but he is beatable. These guys need to stop beating themselves mentally and just go in there ballz out. I agree franklin probably cant beat silva b/c he’s weaker in every area, standing and on the ground, but never say never. His next two opponenent Okami and Cote both mite have a chance. Okami is great on the ground and mite squeak out a decision, while cote has a great chin and just beat a world renowned bjj black belt so his stand up against silva will be interesting. While I think silva will probably win both fites it mite not be in as convincing a manner as his previous fites. I honestly believe that his victories in the ufc are as much his wins as they are the others guy’s losses as weird as that mite sound. He definately has shown signs of weakness against good guys on the ground, natequart, lutter and henderson all has some success, all be it small. Hopefully Okami can really step up and put together a nice game plan and make silva go past the 2nd round, something we have yet to see.
all should try and take him down! his stand-up is just mad crazy. the problem with that is no one wants to get close and clinch with this m.t. machine!
I do not understand rich’s thinking process its like he thinks silva is impossible to beat. He should be training, finding weaknesses, exploiting those weaknesses and working his way back to another title shot. Stop being a pussy and be a fighter.
You don’t understand how Rich feels??? It’s because he lost in such devastating fashion. Both losses were complete destruction. I can’t imagine what it would be like to train so hard and for so long only to step into the octagon and be demolished the way he was. We can only surmise what that would feel like. Franklin lived it twice.
i dont think you know what youre talking about dude, let alone, have the nerve to say a fighter with 23-3 record needs to “be a fighter, not a pussy”…Silva has said himself that Rich is the toughest guy he has fought, this was after the Henderson fight…Rich is giving Silva the respect he deserves, maybe you should try doing the same.
How can Silva say that Franklin is the toughest guy that he has fought? Franklin NEVER did anything in either fight to put Anderson in the slightest amount of danger. Silva is just being biased because they seem to be quite chummy with one another.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by ViolentMike
2008-07-10 13:14:57
However, I don’t see Anderson Silva submitting his resume to take Jorgey Gurgel’s cabbanna boy job.
Comment by john
2008-07-10 14:06:16
Its safe to say that Jorge’s job/nickname are safe! lol
Ace is in a bit of a no-man’s land, but he should hang tight at MW and see what happens. He’s not going to beat Anderson, but someone else might, and then he could get another crack at the title.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the odds are great of Franklin ever fighting for another title, let alone winning one, but I like him, so I’m imagining scenarios:
1. Anderson is somehow adversely affected by his fight with Irvin. Perhaps by the weight gain/loss of going to LHW then back down to MW. He’s then strangely listless in his fight with Okami and loses a close decision. Franklin has “beaten” Okami, so a title shot for him would not be out of the question. The other possibility is that Irvin KO’s Anderson and Anderson returns to MW with his mystique gone and loses to Okami. Less likely, but this is MMA.
You’ll notice I haven’t mentioned Cote. I don’t think he has any shot worth speaking of against Anderson. Okami is at least at the level where he’s a viable underdog. Of the guys currently in the UFC MW division I give Okami, Hendo, and Marquardt the best shot at upsetting Silva. Since Silva’s already beaten Hendo and Marquardt, Okami is the last best challenger.
2. Franklin beats Hamill at LHW and then returns to MW to face either a top up-and-comer (winner of Bisping/Leben) or squares off with the other top guys (Hendo, Marquardt) to see who really is the #2 in the division. Right now I actually think Rich is #4 after these guys, but it’s worth seeing who really is second best. Hendo/Franklin is a big draw, though unlikely to happen soon. I’d most like to see him fight Marquardt myself. If Rich can keep himself in the picture by beating a guy high on the food chain, then he can buy himself some time and keep his brand viable while Anderson defends his title a couple times. If he can hang around long enough for Hendo and/or Marquardt to get another shot at Silva, then I think it’s conceivable that one of these guys (even though they lost already) could pull off an upset. They are at least talented enough that they have a chance. Then Rich could step in as the number #1 contender if Silva loses.
Granted these are not the greatest prospects, hanging around hoping the #1 P4P gets upset, but I think it makes more sense than going LHW. Franklin is still a star at MW. He has only lost to Silva at that weight class. There’s plenty of guys to test himself against there.
The problem with Rich is that he’s a little one dimensional, like Matt Hughes. It’s interesting that their reigns fairly coincided. Hughes has no stand up and Franklin has no wrestling. Both have good jits, but not world class. That’s a lot to have to make up for against the best in the world. Both are very strong and come in phenomenal shape, but that’s not enough in this day and age. And it’s too late for either of these guys to redefine their game. If Rich had one punch KO power he’d still be a threat even to Silva, but he doesn’t. He’s a wear you down kind of fighter, with the Quarry fight the only exception to this.
I find myself wanting to imagine ways that Rich could still get another shot at glory. Despite everyone saying that Silva/Franklin 3 is totally unnecessary, if Silva gets upset by Okami and then Franklin gets a crack at the belt again and wins, I’d actually really like to see a third fight. It appears Silva owns him like no one else has ever owned anyone in MMA, but I still think Franklin can put up a much better scrap.
Silva is going to win this fight its crazy how much he can fight i wish the black house gym comes to socal soon so i can up my game silvas mom passed i think last month that shit sux we all got moms but i think its going to make him more crazy the best under Prasher Silva wins tko i dont think its going out of the First round irvin is no push over but we all know how its going down
I’m gonna have to go 1st rd knockout for Silva
I have no audio at school! someone please tell me wTF he is talking about.
He says that Anderson Silva is very calculated and is at the top of his game now. Not much
Thanks Rich, or should I say Captain Obvious!
Of Course I will throw away $20 betting on Irvin, but at those odds, u almost have to take a chance on the Big Under Dog with the punchers chance!
you are so lame
He’s talking about how calculating a fighter Anderson Silva is. He’s basically tooting Silva’s horn.
Not a shock, Silva and Franklin seem to have a really good amount of respect for each other.
Then try watching it when you get home… or stick some earphones into the computer…
Why dont u try, getting Off my Nuts? I dont ever remember addressing you!
Yeah man like he said get off his nuts your given the guy blue balls
Anderson is a can. They won’t let him fight BJ because they know he will lose.
Looking for a reaction are we?
Indeed, although I think BJ takes it at 170.
Anderson a can?? BJ wont even be able to handle Rush. I really dont understand why many of you beleive he could take 170. Peirre would smash this guy, AGAIN.
If by “it” you mean a huge knee in the face, and a knockout loss, then yes, B.J. takes it at 170.
Smash him, again? When did he ever smash him? He barely eaked out a decision, when BJ was in bad shape. And when has BJ ever suffered a knockout loss?
And when BJ poked him in the eye, don’t make excuses BJ lost and in doing so he lets GSP feel more comfortable in a rematch. This is why its hard to beat a guy whos beaten you, its because he has nothing to fear fighting you, he knows he won and he can do it again
BJ is too short for Spider and he’s gonna have to gain weight up to 185 and will become too fat and likely to gas out quicker. I don’t see BJ will beat or compete with Spider.
Agreed, that is why I said 170
I don’t think so either. BJ’s only chance at beating Anderson would be to sub him off of his back. But if they were to fight, there is no way Anderson would lay in BJ’s guard. He’d end the fight standing.
Bj’s standup has really improved, but he is primarily a boxer. Anderson is a mauy thai specialist with precision accuracy. Not to mention that BJ would be short and fat and Anderson is tall and rangey.
Really? BJ’s only chance is off his back? I guess his reputation has proceeded him here.
Agree with VM, Anderson is not stupid… he would just give BJ a working over from range.
Anderson a can?? BJ taking him?? HA!
Funny crap, but no dibs.
BJ wont even pass Peirre.
Anderson a can?? BJ taking Anderson??
Not even in BJ’s fantasies. He wont even be able to pass Rush.
He will beat GSP. Although he might not be able to take Anderson, he won’t be submitted or KO’d.
Why do you think that Silva can’t knock him out. B.J.’s striking is not even comparable to Anderson’s. B.J. fans are absolutely the most insane. Next I will be hearing that B.J. would be too big to fight Brock Lesner, or have too good a chin to be knocked out by Liddell.
This guy has no clue, Matt Hughes worked BJ over. Silva would have a first round KO on BJ.
It didn’t look like Matt Hughes was working BJ over before he suffered a cracked rib in there last fight. BJ was absolutely destroying Hughes in the stand up and on the ground, it was so one sided it was ridiculous. Without doubt BJ’s cracked rib saved Hughes from getting the same sort of beating GSP gave him. And if you do not think so you need to watch that match again.
QUESTION: Now that Forrest Griffin is UFC champion, will he be the favorite (gambling) when defending the title?
How often has a champion been the underdog? I know Serra was a dog in the rematch vs. GSP both technically they were both champions at the time
Wasn’t Chuck a dog to Randy in the second fight?
I think if Forrest is a 2-1 dog I would have to take him against anyone. He just keeps showing up in these big fights.
Randy won the 1st fight. Chuck won the title in the 2nd fight, so he wasnt the champ when the lines for that fight were released.
Could he really be the favorite against Chuck Liddell?
Lines are set based on where oddsmakers think the money will go, not who they believe will win. Liddell would probably be a fairly heavy favorite over Forrest, just because he’s The Face of the UFC and is more well-known to mainstream audiences even than Forrest. If Forrest were to fight a lesser-known fighter like Machida or Thiago Silva then Forrest would be favored.
PW: Thats my point exactly…no way he will be favored over the UFC’s posterboy.
I do agree that he would be favored over Machida and Thiago, simply because very few people know enough about them to bet on them
I don’t know. I don’t think that there are very many fans that gamble on the UFC that know Chuck Liddell but don’t know who Forrest Griffin is.
And John, I see Forrest being about a +150 underdog to Liddell, Chuck -200.
I do agree that he will most likely be underdog in his title defense (notice I kept that singular), and I agree that if he is more than a +200 dog, my money is on Forrest.
AA vs Sylvia 3 i think Timmy was the underdog.
randy was the underdog vs gonzaga wasnt he?
VM: Forrest being champion should be great for gambling. I think your odds predictions for Chuck/Forrest are accurate and yes if he is +200, then u would have to go with Forrest.
My Question to u mike, If the uFC doesnt give Chuck the title shot that we all think he will get and they choose to give it to either Rampage or Machida, what do u think the odds would be for those title fights?
Title:
Forrest vs. Machida…..odds?
Forrest vs. Rampage…..Odds?
Honestly, in a rematch with Rampage, I think that the odds would actually be pretty even, VERY even. All of us that lost money on Rampage would bet twice as much the second time around to try and win it all back, however, that may not be such a good idea…. I think that Rampage would start out as the early favorite, but the odds woud quickly change in Forrests favor. (like the Cote/Almeida fight where Cote opened as the favorite but ended up being a dog to Almeida’s -145
And for Machida, I think that Machida would have to be the favorite in the smart bettors eyes. However, the mainstream publics eyes will see Forrest as the favorite, but not much. Perhaps Forrest -135 Machida -110.
franklin needs to stay the f@$# away from silva period!!! if silva moves up than what’s the point for franklin? he needs to keep being the gate keeper for mw or go to another organization. sux bc hes an awesome fighter that represents the ufc extremly well!
What? Thats crazy your telling me because he can’t beat Silva the 2nd best MW in the world should quit and go beat up on some weaker competition. Besides the UFC would not pin Franklin and Silva against each other in the LHW division either when they know the out come. I don’t see why if there really is no good competition for Franklin or Silva at MW that they shouldn’t move up to the LHW and start some chaos. Those two are skilled enough to fight anyone and make it an exciting and great fight. They would just add more depth to a division that is already chest deep in skilled athletes. Who at MW is cause for concern to Silva or Franklin? Okami is the only guy and Franklin decisioned him and Silva was laying a beat down on him during their first fight. Hendo is a natural LHW so Silva and Franklin can always have a fight with him at that weight class as well. Honestly I don’t see any bad point to the two proven best MW’s trying their hand at LHW. If you combine Franklins and Silvas win records you’ll see that they’ve torn the MW division apart and I would never want to see Franklin leave the UFC to fight for some backwater org.
i agree. i don’t think that they should move up either. but if that’s what dana wants then it will happen. and what do you think will happen if silva ever became lhw champ? bottem line is that if they are both dominate in any division that they will have to fight again @ some point in time and i can’t see it turning out well for franklin.
Henderson, Cote and Bisping would all be great fights at middleweight for Rich Franklin. Silva has no competition at 185 but Franklin definitely does. He can move to LHW but he won’t do sh*t. Matt Hammil is going to pound his *ss.
Do you really think Hamill will beat Franklin? Thats just silly. Cote is a straight stand up guy that would get eaten alive and though Bisbing is fighting at MW now he and Hendo both could face Franklin at a LHW as well. This would let the fights be a little more explosive as they won’t have to cut as much weight and Franklin is a pretty big MW he’s a good sized LHW as well.
Are people really talking about the MW division and completely overlooking Dan Henderson? His next fight is at MW, so my guess would be that he is currently a MW fighter … that would defeat Rich Franklin in a main event of PPV.
Its nice to speculate but nobody is over looking Hendo my friend. I’m just saying that if it was really a big deal that Hendo and Franklin fight each other they could pull it off at LHW as well. I also think Franklin will take Hendo but don’t get me wrong I know Hendo would go into that bout being the favorite and has more oppurtunity to beat Franklin.
Oh no Smokes, I wasn’t referring to you. You mentioned Hendo, several people above you didnt’
i gotta think the betting favorite would be franklin based on popularity since franklin is on a lot more tv shows and stuff he’s more known to a casual fan who likes to gamble as to a dan henderson who just fights and doesn’t market himself much outside the cage
isnt that what this smells like?
get silva out of 205 and then rich can go back to posterboy status at 185?
You hit it right on the money homey. Dana white think he is slick but anderson silva and his camp is far from stupid and so are the real mma fans that know the business such as yourself chris. dana would love to force Anderson Silva out of the 185 division, have him relinquish his belt, then have franklin fight some nobody for the title then there poster boy will be running 185 again. the same will happen in the 205 division with chuck liddell too. now that they gave that crappy decision to forrest, i bet they give chuck a fight with Forrest before they give rampage a rematch so chuck can be champ again too. everything is lining up perfectly for Dana white and his friends to give them another title, except Anderson isnt leaving his title vacant for nobody. Forrest might not be that easy of a match for chuck either.
Any other conspiracy theories you jokers buy into? CIA killed Kennedy? The cover up at Rozwell? The moon landings were fake? He asked, not forced, Silva to step up in weight to add some more excitement to the division. Silva isn’t LEAVING MW. And he has no plans to vacate his title, as if he did, whoever held it would simply be a paper champion. And Rich Franklin, IMO, would not WANT to be a paper champion as he and Silva hold each other in very high regard.
Thanks Cheff, I tried correcting these crazy theories as well but my post got blocked. So I’ll straighten up the Chuck fiasco here. Chuck vs Rashad was called a number one contender match before Rampage and Forrest even fought. This means that they originally planned for Chuck to have a title shot against Rampage so I don’t see how they secretly are trying to cut Rampage our of the picture. Not to mention if Chuck beats Forrest who do you think will be next in line to face Chuck? More than likely Rampage
I couldn’t agree more Chef!
As i was reading elmo’s comment i was thinking exactly the same thing… come on guys enough with the conspiracy theories.
I agree that Dana may pull a few strings but in terms of the champion juggling you’ve described i very much doubt it.
It is hard for Rich tho, there is no way he’ll run back down to M/W if Silva stays at L/HW it would be so obvious he’s scared.
Thing is he could hang around at L/HW for a couple of years, make some money from fighting the A-/B level fighters and then retire, thats got to be what his plan is.
Franklin will never hold a UFC belt again.
What are you talking about? Being conspiricy theorist doesn’t make you hardcore fans. They have already stated that if Silva moves up he will retain his belt and defend it like normal. His defenses will be kind of scarce because he’d be fight two weight classes and continual weight gain and loss can really hurt you. So if anything they making the MW division worse because there will be less title defenses. Also in regards to Chuck getting another shot at the title. This was also stated before the Forrest Rampage fight even took place. I suppose they planned for a lazy Rampage to show up and not KO the guy everyone in the world thought he was going to. Seriously give the fighters some more respect and do some research before calling out the conspiricy theories.
But there was a cover up at Roswell…
I use a hat to cover up my head.
An unconventional use, yet still effective
Tinfoil works better.
Number one Rampage needs to work his way back up.
Two, Chuck dont deserve another shot yet.
There are other fighters that have been more consistent in their wins and deserve a title shot firt.
Rampage deserves an immediate rematch, probably in October. Chuck doesn’t deserve a shot before Machida.
I just can’t go against Anderson. It’s not going to be as easy as Franklin or Leben but I do think TKO 2nd RD.
ANDERSON SILVA…..BALLET OF VIOLENCE…DUDES, AN ANIMAL!!
Dana loves silva. people want to see exciting fights and anderson does just that. every casual fan i know loves anderson. cause they know they’ll see a beat down.
If franklin wins a few more fites he should get another shot at silva, just b/c u lose twice doesn’t mean you cant beat a guy. In pride guys have fought each other many many times. Franklin was clearly dominated in both fites but in the second fite he did show some offense. If he gets a rematch with silva he needs to go to a different camp that can break this guy down and exploite silvas weaknesses
That would mean Franklin would have to go to the ground to fight
It won’t matter what Franklin wants to do.. it’s what Anderson Silva wants.. and he wants..he gets…Franklin hanged with Silva part of the RD1, till eventually Silva flipped. Guys..I don’t care if they rematch 1000X..Silva will win every time. Even at 70yrs old Silva would tear Franklin apart.. Franklin wants nothing to do with Silva.. if he is not smart and fights Silva again.. he may have the same fate as Jardine after the Wandy fight.. to add to his metal pins holding his noise together..he’ll need wires to keep his jar together.
Agreed… Franklin was totally outgunned. He knows it, Silva knows it, Dana knows it and we know it.
Yet people still argue that he would have a chance in a re-re-match.
At least Hendo won the first round, and he has only faced him one time as opposed to two.
If Anderson fought Rich 100 times, Anderson wins all 100.
However, if Anderson fought Hendo, I do not see Anderson winning 100 times.
I didn’t say Franklin would take him to the ground and beat him or anything but thats Franklin’s only hope of beating Silva. Franklin has an underrated ground game but it isn’t strong enough to submit or even gnp Silva. I don’t think Silva will beat Franklin 100 times out of 100 but I get your point. Franklin has some power in his hands so he stands a chance to actually beat Silva just not nearly as much as Hendo does. Seriosly if Franklin is that far gone to Silva everyone else is that far gone to Franklin so its sick to think who could honestly take Silva. I think Okami beats him in his title match but 99 times out of 100 Silva would beat Okami. I’m just saying the underdog is going to win this match.
Did you think Franklin was going to defend his title successfully against Silva the first time??
Did you think Franklin was going to make the proper ajustments to try to defeat Silva the 2nd time?
Did you think Lutter was going submit/defeat Silva?
Did you think Nate M. was going to dominate Silva and Gnp him to defeat?
Did you think Henderson was going to expose Silva’s weaknesses?
Did you REALLY feel that Okami= Super Under Dog.. will defeat Silva?
Yes I thought Rich was going to defend his title against Silva the first time,
no I didn’t think he was going to make proper adjustments to get it back but I really hoped he could pull the win off cause he’s my favorite MW,
No I didn’t think Lutter, Nate, or Hendo would beat Silva
No I don’t think that Okami will beat Silva because Silva is the more skilled opponent but I like Okami more and I think he does stand a chance at beating Silva so I’ll will be picking Okami
Also I didn’t think that GSP would beat Hughes
or that Serra would beat GSP
or that Penn would beat Sherk
or that Randy would beat Sylvia
or that Sylvia would beat Arlovski
or that Forrest would beat Rua and Rampage (but like Okami I picked Forrest to beat Rampage even though I thought Rampage was the better fighter)
You get my point man, and Silva has lost 3 times so the guy is not undefeatable. give it a rest and learn that it is ok to pick the underdog no matter how huge of an underdog he is. If I’m wrong no harm done but if I’m right thats 5 million people who are wrong, so when its a favorite fighter of mine I’ll pick him to win like Hughes, Franklin, Okami, Arlovski, Sherk, and Forrest.
Agree to a point but the thing is do you recon Rich would actually want the fight let alone what the fans/UFC want?
You could see in his eyes after the onslaught at the end of the 1st round (in 2nd fight) that he was done mentally.
He does not think in his own heart he can beat Silva so the battle is already lost. I feel for him but in every interview since the second fight defeat is written all over his face.
that’s definately the problem, he’s mentally beat to fite the guy. Its what everyone in that division has. They’re scarred sh*tless of the guy and they shouldnt be. Yes he’s the best fighter in the world, but he is beatable. These guys need to stop beating themselves mentally and just go in there ballz out. I agree franklin probably cant beat silva b/c he’s weaker in every area, standing and on the ground, but never say never. His next two opponenent Okami and Cote both mite have a chance. Okami is great on the ground and mite squeak out a decision, while cote has a great chin and just beat a world renowned bjj black belt so his stand up against silva will be interesting. While I think silva will probably win both fites it mite not be in as convincing a manner as his previous fites. I honestly believe that his victories in the ufc are as much his wins as they are the others guy’s losses as weird as that mite sound. He definately has shown signs of weakness against good guys on the ground, natequart, lutter and henderson all has some success, all be it small. Hopefully Okami can really step up and put together a nice game plan and make silva go past the 2nd round, something we have yet to see.
all should try and take him down! his stand-up is just mad crazy. the problem with that is no one wants to get close and clinch with this m.t. machine!
Silva has stated himself that he does not plan to leave the MW div. He is just doing this fight as a one shot because he likes the challenge.
Nobody “gave” the win to Forrest. He won fair and square. It was a unanimous decision, wasn’t even close.
Yeah Sure.
PhilQNY-
Are you related to ‘Page?
I do not understand rich’s thinking process its like he thinks silva is impossible to beat. He should be training, finding weaknesses, exploiting those weaknesses and working his way back to another title shot. Stop being a pussy and be a fighter.
You don’t understand how Rich feels??? It’s because he lost in such devastating fashion. Both losses were complete destruction. I can’t imagine what it would be like to train so hard and for so long only to step into the octagon and be demolished the way he was. We can only surmise what that would feel like. Franklin lived it twice.
i dont think you know what youre talking about dude, let alone, have the nerve to say a fighter with 23-3 record needs to “be a fighter, not a pussy”…Silva has said himself that Rich is the toughest guy he has fought, this was after the Henderson fight…Rich is giving Silva the respect he deserves, maybe you should try doing the same.
How can Silva say that Franklin is the toughest guy that he has fought? Franklin NEVER did anything in either fight to put Anderson in the slightest amount of danger. Silva is just being biased because they seem to be quite chummy with one another.
However, I don’t see Anderson Silva submitting his resume to take Jorgey Gurgel’s cabbanna boy job.
Its safe to say that Jorge’s job/nickname are safe! lol
Better keep running from Bisping franklin you bitch monkey!
I like Bisping, but he hasn’t done squat to earn the right to fight Ace.
Yeah. Franklin is running away from Michael Bisping… That makes sense.
That’s even more of a joke than Michael Bisping headlining 2 UFC events.
Word!!! comments like Tony’s is the reason i read this site….for laughter
Tony shut the fu(k up!
I know this is completely juvenile, but Tony, your comments and general bias are two of the main reasons I can’t stand Bisping.
Ace is in a bit of a no-man’s land, but he should hang tight at MW and see what happens. He’s not going to beat Anderson, but someone else might, and then he could get another crack at the title.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the odds are great of Franklin ever fighting for another title, let alone winning one, but I like him, so I’m imagining scenarios:
1. Anderson is somehow adversely affected by his fight with Irvin. Perhaps by the weight gain/loss of going to LHW then back down to MW. He’s then strangely listless in his fight with Okami and loses a close decision. Franklin has “beaten” Okami, so a title shot for him would not be out of the question. The other possibility is that Irvin KO’s Anderson and Anderson returns to MW with his mystique gone and loses to Okami. Less likely, but this is MMA.
You’ll notice I haven’t mentioned Cote. I don’t think he has any shot worth speaking of against Anderson. Okami is at least at the level where he’s a viable underdog. Of the guys currently in the UFC MW division I give Okami, Hendo, and Marquardt the best shot at upsetting Silva. Since Silva’s already beaten Hendo and Marquardt, Okami is the last best challenger.
2. Franklin beats Hamill at LHW and then returns to MW to face either a top up-and-comer (winner of Bisping/Leben) or squares off with the other top guys (Hendo, Marquardt) to see who really is the #2 in the division. Right now I actually think Rich is #4 after these guys, but it’s worth seeing who really is second best. Hendo/Franklin is a big draw, though unlikely to happen soon. I’d most like to see him fight Marquardt myself. If Rich can keep himself in the picture by beating a guy high on the food chain, then he can buy himself some time and keep his brand viable while Anderson defends his title a couple times. If he can hang around long enough for Hendo and/or Marquardt to get another shot at Silva, then I think it’s conceivable that one of these guys (even though they lost already) could pull off an upset. They are at least talented enough that they have a chance. Then Rich could step in as the number #1 contender if Silva loses.
Granted these are not the greatest prospects, hanging around hoping the #1 P4P gets upset, but I think it makes more sense than going LHW. Franklin is still a star at MW. He has only lost to Silva at that weight class. There’s plenty of guys to test himself against there.
The problem with Rich is that he’s a little one dimensional, like Matt Hughes. It’s interesting that their reigns fairly coincided. Hughes has no stand up and Franklin has no wrestling. Both have good jits, but not world class. That’s a lot to have to make up for against the best in the world. Both are very strong and come in phenomenal shape, but that’s not enough in this day and age. And it’s too late for either of these guys to redefine their game. If Rich had one punch KO power he’d still be a threat even to Silva, but he doesn’t. He’s a wear you down kind of fighter, with the Quarry fight the only exception to this.
I find myself wanting to imagine ways that Rich could still get another shot at glory. Despite everyone saying that Silva/Franklin 3 is totally unnecessary, if Silva gets upset by Okami and then Franklin gets a crack at the belt again and wins, I’d actually really like to see a third fight. It appears Silva owns him like no one else has ever owned anyone in MMA, but I still think Franklin can put up a much better scrap.
Or maybe I just like seeing brutal Silva KO’s…
Let’s not forget BJ went to a decision with Machida at 205,…..and that’s when he wasn’t hungry like he is now.
Thank you, sir.
i think bisping should figh anderson just so i could see his head get knocked off
Franklin v Marquart would be a good fight!
Silva is going to win this fight its crazy how much he can fight i wish the black house gym comes to socal soon so i can up my game silvas mom passed i think last month that shit sux we all got moms but i think its going to make him more crazy the best under Prasher Silva wins tko i dont think its going out of the First round irvin is no push over but we all know how its going down
Irvin puts Silva to sleep and makes franklin look like an idiot for thinking silva is impossible to beat. Is it the 19th yet?