Saturday Afternoon Throwdown: Three UFC light heavyweight fights that need to happen
By: Chris Cosme
With Quinton “Rampage” Jackson set to defend his UFC 205-pound title against Forrest Griffin in a few weeks at UFC 86: “Jackson vs. Griffin,” it’s a good time to discuss some other potential fights in the stacked division.
It’s obvious that the UFCs light heavyweight class is the deepest division in mixed martial arts today. With guys like Chuck Liddell, Lyoto Machida, Wanderlei Silva, Thiago Silva and Mauricio “Shogun” Rua, among others, there are plenty of contenders who consider themselves the next man in line for a shot at the strap.
Accordingly, there are three fights that needs to take place to give the UFC a much more clear picture of who will face the winner of the Jackson-Griffin showdown later this year.
At UFC 84: “Ill Will” last month, Wanderlei Silva and Machida helped eliminate the pretenders who many thought would be contenders in Tito Ortiz and Keith Jardine. Even with the impressive wins, however, Silva and Machida still have some work to do to be next in line.
Silva returned to the “Axe Murderer” of old in smashing fashion against Jardine, but he still needs one more big win. As for Machida, his style still fustrates both fighters and fans alike.
On the other hand, inactivity has hurt the title prospects of top guys such as Rashad Evans, Rua and Liddell. It’s hard to penalize a fighter or fault him for getting hurt, especially when all three of these fighters were scheduled to headline this past weekend’s UFC 85: “Bedlam” at one time or another.
Because of the lack of fights one can argue that it’s the reason there is no clear cut number one contender. Do you give Machida a shot before Liddell because he’s won five fights in the UFC and his biggest win is against an over the hill Tito Ortiz? Or do you give Liddell the next shot in line because he won one of the biggest grudge matches of all time against Silva and a possible Liddell-Rampage III could mean big bucks for the UFC?
On top of all that, let’s not forget one guy who can also shake things up in this division in Thiago Silva!
And with that let’s look at three fights that have to take place before the 2008 fight campaign comes to a close. Now there are some no brainers for you MMAMania readers have discussed for some time but mine are a little bit different.
Chuck Liddell vs. Lyoto Machida: As reported earlier this week, Liddell is going to headline UFC 88 in Atlanta on September 6. Even though talk now centers around Evans as his possible opponent, why not plug-in the very dangerous Machida instead? If there is one man who can knockout the elusive Machida — or outpoint him on counter strikes alone — it is Liddell.
“Iceman” is as patient as Machida is, but Liddell clearly has the advantage in terms of powerful striking. He throws punches from odd angles and it’s something that perhaps Machida has never seen before.
In addition, Liddell would not allow Machida to dictate the pace of the fight. A win for Liddell could cement his place in the division as the clear front runner, which would set up a big New Year’s Eve weekend showdown with either Rampage Jackson or Forrest Griffin.
A win for the Brazilian, however, could make Dana hang himself because Machida is considered “boring” … and that’s just not going to cut it in the UFCs money-making division.
Shogun Rua vs. Rashad Evans: These men are two of the younger contenders in the division and have big questions to answer. Evans is undefeated, yet he is still looking for that big win that can propel him to super stardom. He was losing his fight against Ortiz at UFC 73: “Stacked” until “The Huntington Beach Bad Boy” was deducted a point for grabbing the cage in the second round.
And he barely escaped with a split-decision win over Michael Bisping at UFC 78: “Validation” last November. Is Evans for real and can be a future champion? His next few fights should tell that tale once and for all.
The future looked bright for Rua — he was widely considered the number one fighter in the weight class for some time until he hit rock bottom in his Octagon debut. He entered the bout against Griffin with a bum knee and bad cardio … and it was his ultimate undoing.
Rua looked nowhere near the man who ripped through the likes of Ricardo Arona, Alistair Overeem and Rampage Jackson while competing under the Pride FC banner. Simply put, it was quite a shock to see a tired Shogun tapout to a rear naked choke by Forrest Griffin last September.
He was scheduled to meet Liddell in the UFC 85 main event until he suffered another knee injury that required knee surgery. It’s hard to come back from two ACL injuries and it makes many wonder if we’ll see the same Shogun that was supposedly destined to rule the UFC light heavyweight division. This could be a fight that could put Shogun right back in the thick of things at 205.
Wanderlei Silva vs. Thiago Silva: The backstory of this potential war could be quite compelling because of the fact that both men at one point in their careers fought for the legendary Chute Boxe Academy in Brazil, which churned out an army of great Brazilian warriors.
The list is incredible when you consider that guys like Shogun, Ninja Rua and UFC Middleweight Champion Anderson Silva were all at one point Chute Boxe fighters.
And Wanderlei was arguably the face of Academy during its heyday just a few years ago.
Wanderlei was the past, but at one point, Thiago was the present and future for the Academy. Thiago was clearly the new breed of the Chute Boxe and it showed in all of his fights in the UFC thus far. In the past what made Chute Boxe one of premier fight camps was its emphasis on one thing when fighting: aggression.
The aggressive style overwhelmed essentially all of the guys put in front of Silva and Rua. But with Thiago, he utilizes his striking that leads to his jiu-jitsu game which is a double-edged sword for all of his opponents.
The thing you have to remember with Shogun and Wanderlei is that both men are black belts in jiu-jitsu, but because they’re such powerful strikers, it’s never really was needed. Thiago uses his striking to frustrate opponents standing and then takes them down (See Houston Alexander).
Once he took Alexander down, he exposed Alexander’s ground game and used it to mount Alexander and pound him out.
But the one thing we have to see in Thiago is if he can handle the aggressive style that a fighter like Wanderlei brings the minute the bell rings. It’s would be a big test for Thiago, but a fight he can win. It’s a fight that Wanderlei can win as well because Wanderlei is such a powerful striker. We all know Wanderlei has a chin but does Thiago?
Thiago’s chin hasn’t truly been tested and a guy like Wanderlei will answer that question with one solid right hand.
The three fights proposed here are fights that just have to take place by the end of the year. What do you think? Do you think Liddell should fight Machida in September? Or do you think Evans is a better fight that the fans (not Dana White) want to see? What about the Silvas? Oh let the debates begin!
Quick picks for DREAM 4 and Elite XC this weekend:
- Yves Edwards
- Nick Diaz
- Ron Waterman
- Ninja Rua
- Rafael Feijao
- Shinya Aoki
- Gegard Mousasi
- Melvin Manhoef
- Jason Miller
- Zelg Galesic
I’m going to end this week’s edition of the Friday Night (Saturday Afternoon) Throwdown on a sad note.
It’s going to be quite a depressing site this Sunday at DREAM 4, when Japanese MMA legend Kazushi Sakuraba goes against a menacing Melvin Manhoef in the second round of the middleweight tournament. Unless he can pull out a miracle submission (and he can) this could be the fight that puts Kaz out of MMA for good because Manhoef is straight up mean.
This fight will take place under PRIDE-type rules, which allow knees to grounded opponents. It’s been almost three years since Sakuraba has fought under these rules against a fighter like Manhoef — he is a monster in terms of striking and if he gets Kaz in side control, those knees will be coming with bad intentions.
Now Sakuraba has defied the odds many times, but this is one fight that I just can’t see him winning. I could be wrong and I hope I am for the sake of Sakuraba.
Until next time people, I’ll see you right back here in the Throwdown next Friday night!
54 Comments »
Rua IMO needs a tune-up fight for his first fight back in the UFC. Not because I question his skills( I don’t, I still have him ranked as #2 ) Its more a question of his knee and ring rust.
But that being said, I like your fights. Chuck vs Machida could either be the most boring fight in history or fireworks. I would personally take Machida via UD.
yeah, I rather see wandy in there because he’ll bring the fight to machida, I just don’t see that with chuck (not to take anything away from chuck, but he’s not half as aggressive as the axe murderer). IMO, machida needs someone aggressive.
I agree, Wand would bring the fight to him more
Linx: U r Absolutely right. I say the match ups should be:
Shogun vs. Rashad because Shogun needs a tune up fight, and Rashad is perfect because Standing up, Shogun would kill Rashad, and if Rashad wants to take the fight to the ground, Shogun’s ju jitsu would sweep Rashad and eventually submit Rashad. That is a fight Rashad can not loose.
Chuck vs. Wanderlei 2
THiago Silva vs. Machida
Chris: Great write up. THe only things I will disagree about are:
THiago Silva has a great chin, trust me on that.
shogun is a beast on the ground, and he shows it in all most all of his fights. His ju jitsu is at a very high level. I actually think Shogun is better on the ground then Machida and Thiago. For example: THe Kevin Randleman fight, Shogfun didnt throw 1 strike…all leg locks. Shogun’s striking is amazing, but what always set him apart the rest of the top guys, was his high level ground game.
If Rua wants a ‘tune-up fight’, he should leave the UFC for it. I was under the imression that there were not tune-up fights in the UFC.
Chuck vs. Shogun
Silva vs. Mach
Thiago vs. Rashad
That makes the most sense to me. Chuck and Shogun was already booked, Rashad and Thiago was aready booked, and it would be awesome to see how Machida handles The Axe Murderer’s relentless offense.
DREAM predictions:
Aoki via submission
Moussasi via TKO
Sakuraba via submission. I know that in reality
Sakuraba might loose this fight, but picking against Sakuraba is mma Blasphemy
Jacre via submission
Zaleg via TKO
The best scenario would be:
WANDI vs MACHIDA (wandi is a chaser so machida wont have a choice but to really fight back)
THIAGO vs LIDELL (they would both be trying to knock eachothers head off)
RUA vs EVANS (will really take one out of contention)
though machida deserves a title shot more then anyone IMO…..why can jon fitch can get a title shot for being undefeated yet machida hasnt…what gives???
and feed forest to JARDINE so we can really see how screwed up it was to give forest a shot before anyone else….maybe we can see jardine make him cry again!
nice picks - i think Lyoto’s disciplined & defensive style would again prove too much for a top teir talent in liddel, he’s a more rounded fighter so anywhere the fight would go lyoto should have the advantage - the only one i can see that can beat lyoto is rampage
if his conditioning is up to par, and his knee is close to 100% Shogun should dominate evans - which i would love since shogun has a great technical yet aggressive style…it should just be a matter of time before evan’s perfect record gets shattered
It is a matter of time, he fights Chuck next.
I think that Liddell vs Machida is a good matchup it would clear the way for the next man to face the champ. In regards to Evans I would like to see him with Shogun but he won’t be available till December and that is too long for Rashad to wait I think that Evans should have a fight with someone like Goran Reljic or Matt Hamill first. They are both good fighters and are coming off wins so if Rashad beats them then he moves up the ladder. Thiago vs the Axe Murder that fight has to happen that is a fight of the year candidate for sure.
Remember, Shogun didn’t come straight from Pride with only amazing wins…he looked like crap against Nakamura at Shockwave 2006.
Also, something does not “center around” something, it revolves around.
rashad evans if fighting matt hamill in atlanta, on the ufc 89 card. they could use the event to weed out a lot of the contenders @ 185. then they would have fighters coming with no gaps of inactivity.
RASHAD EVANS is fighting MATT HAMILL in atlanta, on the UFC 89 card. they could use the card to weed out some contenders @ 205.
The UFC is handing meatballs to Evans…why, I just don’t get it! This dude has never been challenged with a real fighter, except for Tito, even then Tito looked like crap. Reshad needs a real test like chuck or Wandi, someone ready to come at him who isn’t afraid to be on the ground. Machida’s ninja style would be good to beat Reshad (punch and run, punch and run) but I think Machida would boar everyone to a decision win. Either way I just want to see Reshad lose and lose bad!
Of Rashad’s six UFC wins, four were split/majority decisions (read: not decisive). One was a highlight reel KO of Salmon, who wouldn’t even be top 5 in WEC. And the other was a good win over Lambert, who may or may not even be top 10. You can argue back and forth on the draw with Tito, whether Tito would have won the fight if not for the deduction or if Rashad gets a few more slams without the fence grabbing and wins the second round and a 29-28 decision. If Rashad somehow beats Chuck, and I don’t see how he does, then you can mention him with title contenders. Until then Rashad is no more than a gatekeeper.
I kinda agree with your assessment of Rashad’s past fights. He really needs to win some fights in a decisive fashion before he can even face Liddel.
Matt will beat Rashad… Hamill is a beast!
Thiago silva vs james irvin!
Axe Murderer vs The Sandman
Irvin can beat any of those guys
Am I the only one who thinks Liddell vs Machida would be boring?
I think so too, but it wont be because of Chuck. If Machida ran from Tito who doesnt have KO power, imagine how he’d run from Liddell.
I agree. Machida shows up for that fight wearing track shoes.
Machida isn’t Starnes.
Machida’s style is a counter-based fighting style. You could say he’s running or you can say “elusive.” Either way, his style is something that fighters haven’t figured out yet.
If he was running the whole time with Tito, then tell me who scored a take-down in that fight?
Who was bleeding at the end?
If Machida had one more minute left in the first round, I can almost guarantee a TKO victory. Tito was caught in the crucifix position and couldn’t escape.
I agree that Machida and Chuck could be a boring fight since they are both counter fighers. But as a MMA fan, I’m truely intrigued by Machida’s style. He’s almost untouchable and a 13-0 record proves it.
for all of you that think chuck is not aggresive, you are full of crap, he took the fight to wandy, no should wandy get a shot at the title before chuck
chuck would be better at cutting off the ring from machida than tito
i would like to see the sandman get thrown into the mix to see what he could do. i think he is hit or miss, could be a upsetter for someone
I think all three of those LHW fights should happen. Chuck wants a title shot, so beating Machida should do that considering how much Machida is being hyped. Shogun/Evans should be perfect for Shogun to get back in the mix. He should be a better striker and better on the groud. That will let us know where Shogun is. The two Silva’s would be a monster fight, the only thing in question would be Thiago’s chin.
You know………. Im getting sick and tired of hearing how chuck deserves a title shot. I say give it to him so he can get ktfo by rampage for a third time. He was a great champion and an exciting fighter which is why he is so popular, but his time is past. He should quit now so his legacy remains what it is. I would hate to see him turn into evander.
liddel v shogun, wanderlei silva v machida, evens v cane, thiago silva v irvin. joe silva make it happen!!!!
who is the hell is cane lol.?
evans v cane!!! lol
good fights i agree with all of those, i hope shogun get a impressive win in his next fight and i hope the victim will be rashad, i really dont think chuck can beat lyoto but will be a good matchup and lyoto after winning should get a title shot per sure he deserve it
I like Machidas fights people that see him as boring tend to not know shit about mma. Hes a smart fighter not an idiot if he had KO power he could be more aggressive but he dont so he plays to his own strengths not his opponents.
Anyways Thiago vs Rashad Liddel vs Shogun Wanderlei vs Machida Irvin vs Sokodouj
The fights that really need to happen imo ALL IN ONE CARD!!! That would truely clear everything up in the division.
Forgot to add i wouldnt mind seeing Soko knock out Jardine too that would also be a good fight to eliminate Jardine completely from LHW rankings where he dont belong.
I like Machidas fights people that see him as boring tend to not know shit about mma. Hes a smart fighter not an idiot if he had KO power he could be more aggressive but he dont so he plays to his own strengths not his opponents.
Anyways Thiago vs Rashad Liddel vs Shogun Wanderlei vs Machida Irvin vs Sokodouj
The fights that really need to happen imo ALL IN ONE CARD!!! That would truely clear everything up in the division.
i think you have the match ups all wrong. Why would you want liddell to fight machida if you are looking for an exciting fight? dont you think a guy like thiago against chuck would be an automatic exciting fight and vice versa for machida against wanderlei? wanderlei would bring the pressure that would make an exciting fight
i disagree with liddell vs machida,
machida deserves next title shot, liddel needs 2 more wins before he gets a shot, since he just came back from 2 straight loses why should he get a title shot so soon?
Machida vs rampage/griffin on new years eve!
I say: let Rua fight James Irvin when they are both healthy! Evans vs. Chuck is inked. Wandy vs T. Silva should be exciting! Lyoto should have the next shot he deserves it no matter how “boring” people think he is.
injurys suck!!
we would of had a clear pic. of the top 3 fighters @ 205 after this sept but the london card killed the ufc!
Rashad didn’t exactly looked impressive against Tito, a fight that could’ve gone either way. Decision would’ve been tipped in Tito’s favor had it not been for a point deducted by grabbing the fence. Tito didn’t looked impressive either.
So, Rashad needs to prove himself in a decisive fashion against one of those mid-level fighters like Stephen Bonner or Matt Hamill.
Being undefeated means alot…
Evans
Machida
One more win and I would consider these guys…
Chuck
Henderson
Still has something to prove
Shogun
Wandi
Wildcards and need atleast 3 more wins in a row.
Thiago Silva (Got rocked bad and was lucky last fight)
Sokuju
It will be years before they get a title fight if ever
Nakamura
Houston Alexander
I dont really understand the technical logic behind forest getting the shot at the belt, but I do understand the $$$ value.
Jardine is in with Wandi and Shogun (wins wise) but not there for the draw effect.
I think this would be a great card… and should happen.
Machida vs Thiago Silva (Winner gets Title shot)
Henderson vs Chuck
Wandy vs Shogun
Rashad vs Jardine
Soko vs Houston Alexander
(In all reality Chuck vs Machida should happen just for the sheer curiosity of seeing who is the better fighter that can shift gears. Both work well when guys are coming at em… It might be boring to most but I would love it.) It would last all 3 rounds.
W. Silva vs T. Silva would be great just for the banging (Quite the opposite of the chuck vs Machida fight. I doubt this one would last 30 seconds.
I would love to see Anderson Silva get a title shot but only if he defeats Chuck or Machida.
What about irvin.
He put your boy ouston to sleep.
Manchida has an undefeated 5 win streak in the ufc and beat a motivated Tito Ortiz. He also beat BJ Penn before either were in ufc and Stephan Bonner.
Manchida has NEVER lost anywhere. The next fights depened on what happens w/griffen n rampage. If Rampage loses he should fight wanderlie. If not then griffen should fight wanderlie. chuck should fight shogun and rashad and thiago should fight. MANCHIDA should fight for the title but he won’t. Matt Hamil should get a big fight soon.
I believe unless you want to wait another half year for the title to be defended again this article is nice in dream dream land but not practical.
I don’t believe anybody that doesn’t have at least a two win streak deserves a title shot.
While Silvia would be a good money maker vs either winner and much better than Machido he needs to PROVE he still has it. So he beat Jardine, so did Houston Alexander who lost two fights via first round knock out.
Liddell getting a title shot first night out? Not even though he is the moneymanker.
Shogun need, you know, like a win before he gets a title shot I don’t know why the heck he is even in the picture when even a win vs. whoever would give him a one win fight streak.
Rashad I don’t think has a chance and won’t bring in the money yet.
Thiago Silva…ehhhhh no.
So we NEED these fights to pick a fighter that nobody has had an answer to, is controversial in his fighting style, that people will eventually pay big bucks to see his style get his ass handed to him. That people like me enjoy his stick and move style. That doesn’t have a defeat? Griffon gets title shot with defeat of Shogun, but Machido doesn’t after a win with highly ranked Sokoju? Sure let’s do you system, wait another major part of a year for another title defense with the deepest division in all of MMA and let’s mess things up more. NOT. Unless you want another John Fitch getting screwed out of a title shot when it comes to name a contender year in and year out give Machido the title shot. It can’t be a worse decision than giving the nod to F’n Serra.
Shogun is 6 and 1 in his last 7. That’s why he’s still in the picture. Most of these fights have been against top notch comp (lil-nog, arona, Page, Randleman).
I’m pretty sure Dana wants to see Machida lose, Liddel win, Thiago lose, Rashad win, Wandy, both win and lose. He needs Wandy to stick around, but I’m not sure he wants him to win the belt just yet. I have a hard time seeing Liddel beat Machida personally. Shogun he wants to win because he’s a potential money earner like the Spider. Hugely entertaining and already a good fan base.
Me, I’d love to see Rashad lose (boring), and Liddel lose (his time is over/one dimensional) and see Machida get the big match he deserves, as well as Thiago. I love Rua, and want to see him healthy and fighting whoever.
Machida himself has said the reason no one has figured his style out is because he has a Karate base. Most modern MMA guys never trained karate. They didn’t take it serious compared to BJJ, etc. But Chuck also has a background in karate. Add to that the fact that Chuck knows he has to come in for the kill and that both men know Lyoto has no KO power. Chuck KO’s Machida first round.
But not before he KO’s Rashad in exciting fashion. Having KO’d two previously undefeated fighters he will get his title shot.
I’d say a healthy Rua against Machida would be interesting.
for those of u guys who think machida deserves a title shot. Keep dreaming. Dana white is not a fan of boring fighters. He is not a smart fighter he just sucks and runs to frustrate then tries some things. Not much of a great fighter. And UFC is all about selling ppvs. So machida may never see the title. Dana will not allow a boring fighter to fight for a title.
Sherk…
Tim Silvia…
By all means have Dana make sure Machido never gets a title shot. I love the idea. Just have him beat Lidell, Rua, Evans, Rampage, Forest, Jardine, Alexnadar, Silvia, Stann, and whoever else you throw at him just to have the champ up there to equal joke.
Or maybe Dana is also a coward and won’t give him top name competition?
I know everybody on this board is right about fights all the time that is fine. Let’s pretend we live in a fantasy world where you didn’t see Serra beating St. Pierre and haven’t made multimillions betting the sport. Let’s say Dana isn’t a coward and gives Machido Lidell and he beats Lidell. Then he gives him the loser of the Rampage vs Forest fight. How many wins till you give a fighter you can’t appreciate..oh wait…a “boring” fighter a chance at the title?
The other thing about this thread…everybody is OK for waiting for these fights to happen so we have to wait for the title to be defended again till probably after the new year?
Chuck vs. Rashad (because that’s what they’re going to do anyway)
Wander vs. Lyoto
Shogun vs. Thiago