The picture above shows the injuries that Joe Lauzon sustained during his main event fight against Kenny Florian at UFC Fight Night 13 on April 2.
During the lightweight bout, referee Herb Dean stopped the action in the first round when he felt blows that Florian delivered to the back of Lauzon’s head were dangerous. He did not deduct any points — just issued a warning — nor did he give Lauzon extra time to recover.
It seemed as if Lauzon was not himself after the exchange and he eventually went on to lose in the second round of the bout via technical knockout.
After the fight there was some debate and confusion about whether or not the elbow strikes to Lauzon’s head were legal. Here are the pre-fight instructions that Lauzon received in the locker room from Dean:
“… nothing behind the ear is legal. Put a set of over the top head phones on, and nothing behind the band is legal.”
As Lauzon points out, all three cuts are behind that band. It doesn’t do him (or us) much good right now; however, it hopefully clears up some confusion regarding elbow strikes to the dome going forward.
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Overrated Florian wins partialy because of his illegal elbows. Nice.
Oh yeah, Im first! WHOOT-WHOOT!
http://www.complex.com/CELEBRITIES/Web-Exclusive/Matt-Serra
C: Tim Sylvia, he caught a lot of flack during his heavyweight reign, do you think you guys finally have a common ground to stand on now when it comes to haters?
Matt Serra: Please, never put me in the same sentence with that big retard ever again. [Laughs] That guy… matter of fact, the only thing I’m going to have in common, is I’m going to have everybody booing me. I’m going to feel like Tim Sylvia when he fights… oh yeah, anywhere. That guy would get booed in his hometown! Listen, if you want to [laughs], you’re making me laugh. Did you ever see the TV show Blind Date? Those two episodes with Tim Sylvia…did you know he was on that show?
C: I didn’t catch those.
Matt Serra: He’s like “Duhhhhh, you know, what’s the problem?” And the girl’s like “I just don’t find you attractive.” And he’s like “Duhhhh…” It was awesome! I’m not a big Tim Sylvia fan. I think the guy’s a moron
LOL gained respect for Serra
check out 2nd page where he is talking about Sylvia, LOL
I seem to remember Lauzon hammering Cole Miller in the back of the head with an elbow during TUF 5. Same outcome, only a warning even though Miller was rocked beyond the point of being able to continue the fight normally.
Kenny won that fight, just like he would the next ten times they fought. Lauzon was outclassed by a factor of ten.
Move on. Joe lost. His one and only claim to fame was his KO win over Pulver. Pulver may be a force at 145, but at 155 his day ended about three hours after he beat Penn.
Kenny won fair and square. J-Lau is where he belongs, in the middle of the pack behind Maynard, Manny and Nate.
You should rewatch that episode then. Cole Miller was given time to recover, and they deducted a point from Lauzon. Cole just didn’t take advantage of the recovery time.
Quote of the day:
Complex: Tim Sylvia caught a lot of flack during his heavyweight reign. Do you think you guys finally have a common ground to stand on now when it comes to haters?
Matt Serra: Please, never put me in the same sentence with that big retard ever again.
http://www.complex.com/CELEBRITIES/Web-Exclusive/Matt-Serra
Lol i just gained a little bit of respect for Matt Serra.
i’d love to see that “big retard” smack Serra right between the ears. You and Serra should hang out, you both like to throw out silly cuses
Joe shouold have at the least be given time to recover. That last gash at the bottom of the back of his head is a very delicate spot. I caught an elbow in that exact spot a few weeks ago playing basketball and its no Joke. It wasnt even that hard of a hit and I immediately felt dizzy and lost my equilibrium for like 5 minutes. I had to sit out the game for like 5 minutes until I recovered. NOt saying that is the reason that Joe lost, but if the referee had doneh is job and given Joe up to 5 minutes to recover, we wouldnt have to wonder and speculate about this issue!
To just dismiss the elbows and say its no Big deal is just BS!
I posted a very simular post to what mania just wrote the day after the event and I got bashed by EVERYONE on this site saying I was crying…. Its funny, a couple weeks have gone by, and Mania posted the same thing, and now you all seem to agree! You are a FICKLE BUNCH!!!! lol
I was going to type a long rebuttal, mostly mocking you and your brief brush with death on the basketball court and your love crush on J-Lau (I guess that’s enough to satisfy me), however I found an article that goes into more detail on the rule.
Lauzon’s cuts are nowhere near the danger area of the base of the skull where the spine connects, and only barely passed the refs instructions. The article deals more with turtling, but it has implications in this case as well.
http://www.fighting-mma.com/articles/2008/back-of-the-head.php
I thought he had a good shot at winning that fight, and have to agree he didn’t look the same after those shots. He got out of the first mount, but Florian got it right back. He’ll be back, he’s young and improving every time out
Those look like they were on top of the head, not the back. Florian hit him in the back of the head from the ground on his back? Give me a break.
I guess Lauzon cut himself after the match just to make an excuse. Have another drink to fuel those beer goggles.
I was gonna give you crap for the “1st” comment… but you made me laugh with this comment
all 3 marks are on the backside of his head, and theres one thats lower than his ear - wtf are you talking about?
That little swirls, if present, is on the back of the head. Maybe Joe’s a total genetic freak in this regard, but I’m doubting it. Furth evidenced by the angle of the photo. Note that you’re looking at the back of Joe’s ears.
And yes, it’s easy to hit someone in the back of the head when they’re in your guard, trying to pass and g&p. In fact, I’d go as far as to say it’s easier to hit the back of an opponent’s head when they’re trying to avoid your blows by tucking their head.
That’s not proof at all, You can see the back of Joe’s ears when you’re staring at him in the face!
give u a break, just take the rest of ur life off and dont comment anymore, Florian should have been disqualified…..he still should be……..if Marvin Guillard won against Huerta and then had his win revoked because he was all greased up, this cheater Florian should have his win taken away nomatter what the league is!!!!!!
What irritates me the most is that after Dean issued a warning (no point taken, fine - no time to recover, ugh) - that they STOOD THEM BACK UP?!
Lauzon clearly had top position and was active - why weren’t they reset back on the ground w/ Florian on his back?
Alot of bad reffing that night. i dont think the karo fight shouldve been stopped that early, houston yes, karo no. if it the reffing was at all consisten - nate diaz shouldve had his fight stopped as well as he took 5 or 6 uncontested shots to the face but was given enough time to recover…and he did
I agree, he had florian on his back and was penalized because he got elbowed in the back of the head a bunch.
Mania, thanks for the write up. When I said that he didnt look the same after those elbow strikes everyone bitched and moaned. happy to hear you bring it up and that should clarify that those elbows were clearly illegal.
Is Big John McCarthy the only referee on this planet compitent enough to referee each fight correcly, fairly and equally?
The UFC should offer to pay big John boatloads of money to just work main events or title fights because every other ref seems to just make stuff up as he goes along. Big John set standards and he always followed them. With these other ref’s you dont know what the hell they are going to do from 1 fight to the next.
I think the commission decides who refs what fights and the UFC paying a ref would probably be a problem.
Still, I hear you… When Dean and Maz are the best you got, you got nothing.
Its a sad sad day when Dean and Maz are in the same sentence as the word “best”. I say we start a rally to bring back Big John. Or atleast find someone who’s worth a shit!
what irks me the most is why the ref, after breaking them up to warn kenny, didnt give joe more time to recover AND restart them in the same position w/ joe on top. this is a major flaw in the ufc’s rulebook. it should be mandatory that the fight should be started in the previuos position no matter why the break in action, just like pride used to do i beleive.
Big John should open up his own school for MMA ref’s.
he did
lauzon definetly coulda beaten florian. he held his own.
karma? what lauzon did to cole miller? anyone?
im a HUGE lauzon fan… but SHUT THE FUCK UP
Cole Miller was given time to recover, Lauzon did not.
Wow! Is that his ear or a large moon?
I think its a Direct TV dish.
Not to many things make me laugh but dam these two post are funny!!!!!!!!
I just don’t like Florian for some reason…I hope Huerta kicks his ass
Huerta is just too nuch for Florian to handle. I predit Florians face will be a mess, kind of the Diaz brothers faces look like weather they win or lose-just a mess.
That’s no moon. It’s a space station.
haha. starwars quote?? lol
HAHA. Perfect.
Funny when i brought this up the day after the event, I got attacked, now more than half the people on this site are agreeing. lol
i didn’t wanna be a sore loser. Joe is my favorite fighter (along w/ gsp and bj) and it was a crazy night of upsets -EDGAR LOST!!!- and i expected karo to backup the shit he was talkin and maybe pull off a finish. anyways i do agree they were illegal but it is sorta karma for the cole miller fight. I would say i want those two to fight (to get joe back to his winning ways) but i dont want cole to be done in the ufc other than diaz those are my 2 fav’s from season 5
O’well, Kenny, Joe, and Herb should live and learn from it . . . and if refs (not big John) werent mistaken more often than not we wouldnt have great rematches more often than not. Its sucks at the time but o’well.
i hate periodflo, its going to kill me to sit through him commentating the gsp/serra match this weekend.
good one
the ref couldn’t see, the ring girl had his attention
It really sucks when someone looses because of bad refereeing. I am not saying Joe was a lock to win until the elbows, but I think he should have had time to recover. Isn’t that basic MMA rules, no blows to the back of the head. The whole back of Joe’s head was red right after it happened. I think they should verbally warn the Referees the first time and then fine them for making shitty calls that affect the outcome of fights. Especially main event and title fights.
thats Acne ……wait till Serra gets ahold of Frenchie
good to see some clarification on this issue. I think part of the reason Herb didnt deduct a point was because Kenny hit him with one or two clean elbows, then Lauzon tucked his chin and took the 3 elbows to the back of the head. Kenny just kept throwing them the whole time, and didnt realize he should have stopped once Lauzon moved so that the elbows hit him in the back on the head.
So the elbows to the back Lauzon’s head caused him to gas out? You guys are funny. Kenflo had that fight all the way. The elbows did not matter. Lauzon never had Kenflo in any real trouble in the fight. Besides, Herb Dean called the elbows illegal so what else did you want? It’s not Kenny’s fault if Herb Dean mishandled the situation. Someone who REALLY benefited from illegal strikes was Lauzon in his win over Cole Miller on TUF. You guys won’t talk about that though.
i agree 100%, j-lo shows lots of potential but ken flo is out of his league right now. elbows or no elbows ken flo wins. i love how people call him a cheater. when 2 guys are going full speed and both moving its part of the game when you catch a few illegal shots eye poke, groin shot etc… if lauzon needed a minute he should of said something to dean IMO.
and i’m sorry but anyone that thinks huerta has a chance against ken flo is crazy. kenny will put on a clinic in that fight. i’m not a big ken flo fan by the way, i just call them how i see them.
So if they were illegal why were they allowed? This just added more confusion on my end really. Herb Dean should be fined or something. Damn, people’s health and reputation are at risk here.
I agree 100%, somebody should have to pay for Lauzon loss this is complete BS…..Mania can you please start a PETITION for Florian to have that “WIN” taken AWAY…………….Complete BS!!!!!
LOL
Strip Kill-Flo of the win? That’s taking crying to a whole new level.
I dont think the win should be taken away, but Herb Dean need at least a slap on the wrist.
so who cares about this he hit him with like 5-6 elbows while Joe was laying with his head down on Kenny, like he wanted Kenny to hit him in the back of the head… I mean come on the Brock lesnar fight was a much bigger deal than this, Kenny won the fight fair and square… strikes behind the ears happens in almost every fight and much more than it was in this fight..
those are HICKIES
some fans sound like a bunch of little kids complaining about every little thing. i was REALLY rooting for Joe on this 1, but it wouldn’t have mattered whether there was a penalty, or if he had time to recover cuz Florian(who I hate) would have finished him either way. it was great fight. i can’t wait until kenflo gets beatdown.
I was on the side of “Keep elbows in MMA” until I saw this fight. The only reason Kenny through those bows was to open a cut. Watching it left me with a really sour feeling.
Exactly - it seemed like a dirty play on florians part. Those elbows sole purpose was to open a cut and stop the fight via doctor’s stoppage, short quick stabs that were designed to graze the skin imo
BJ Penn’s elbow the opened up stevenson was thrown to end the fight via (T)KO - so dont bother trying to compare the two.
I dare either one of you to find a UFC fight that was stopped due to a cut/cuts where the winner was losing the fight up until pulling a magic cutting punch or elbow out of his ass to get a stoppage.
When Florian beat chris leben season 1 on tuf
GG i win
Good call. Now, how many total fights have been stopped due to cuts? Out of all the PPV fights, Ultimate Fight Nights, TUF Finale events and TUF fights there has been one stoppage where a guy who was losing the fight won via cut. This is a phenomena that mathematicians would call statistically insignificant.
Couture’s loss against Belfort?
The difference here is that Florian is somehow “proud” of his razor sharp elbows and uses them accordingly - in a way i think is dirty personally
It’s no different than somebody using a deliberate lay ‘n pray gameplan to try to take a decision except Florian is looking to end fights rather than hump his way to a decision, a la Jake O’Brien over Heath Herring. It’s a perfectly legal and widely accepted tactic, and the only people who don’t like it are J-Lau fans who are mad that Florian walloped him. The fact is that very few fights are stopped due to cuts, and of those the vast majority end up going to the guy who was dominating the fight and beating up his opponent.
Mania = Ken-flo h8r. Nice!
Lesner was deducted a point for something less. Kenny should have had a point taken away for those elbows.
justin timberlake said it best, “cry me a river”. he lost the fight and was out classed. nothing will EVER change the fact that he is just not on Ken Flo’s level YET. Lauzon went on to win the round after the elbows to the head so saying that he was not the same after the shots is just sillytalk. i don’t do silly talk.
I work with retards
i dont think the strikes were what the problem was it was a mile above sea level vs training at sea level he was exaulsted after the first round
I was thinking this picture could be fake. But then I saw the ear and realized its Joe.
There are so many bad calls but I dont think they should be mixed up with tools trying to scurry away from getting smashed in the face.
Brock vs Mir (Dont turtle and you wont get smacked in the back of the head) Especially when guys are firing multiple shots and its a do or die situation. Make hay while the sun is shining.
The guy isnt defending himself. Dont tell me laying flat on your back while some one is whaling away on your ears is intelligently defending yourself either.
Sure KFLO was trying to cut him its part of the game. I actually think its kinda refreshing to have someone actually have a gameplan besides.
A) I will ride them Brokeback mountain style.
B) KOSCHECK- Lay and Pray.
C) Chuck & Leben -Swing for the fences and hope I get lucky style.
D) NOG STYLE- Take 3 rounds of beating and sneak out a win.
B-D are stupid, koscheck just ktfo fitch er.. hazlett, not everyone loves chucks but his ko’s are kicka$$, and not a Huge Nog fan but whats wrong with a comeback? last i checked they make good movies
Hey Mania, is there any chance the format of the reply’s will go back to the way it used to be?? The old was much more user friendly..
I agree this way is confusing and hard to read.
Nice assessment Yikes. Very true.
I think there are so many shit ref judgments and ambiguous rules there needs to be a massive reforms. Whether its Ken-Flo’s elbows, Lesnars hammer fists, Kongo’s knees, or lay ‘n pray style of certain fighters the rules are too open to the refs whim. What is back of the head? Is what Herb said in the pre fight instructions his idea of back of the head or is it the NSAC/CSAC rules?
I think the back of the head should be from one ear to the other and under the occipital protuberance, the bump on the back of the head. That whole area is where the skull meets the neck adn can be damaged much easier than the skull itself.
lets try and keep it “barney level” in here pal.:)
Okey dokey buddy;(
I know what you’re talking about. Feel free to keep it grad-school level if you want.
I’m a fan of both these guys so this was a tough fight to watch to begin with.
I watched it several times and lauzon didn’t seem all that upset or changed after the elbows. Afterward he said he was a bit upset regarding the stand up because he had to go for another takedown but didn’t mention much else. Lauzon still did very well in the first and it was a very suspenseful round. The second round is when Lauzon seemed much different but at that point can you really still blame it on the elbows? It seemed to me that Florian really turned up the heat in the 2nd round.
also I’m not saying the elbows weren’t illegal. it looks like the location was.
Personally, if Brock wasn’t docked a point I’d have been just fine with that. He was only trying to get the knockout. Same with Kenny. He was trying to inflict damage, it was the name of the game, then Joe tucked his head in and a couple of blows landed on the head so he was warned. If it kept happening then definitely dock him the point, but it was pretty clear in the fight that trying to hold back those elbows is like trying to hold back the piss in mid-stream. I’m also not convinced that it affected Joe much. He seemed to get right back at it. I think he just started to get a little winded or something. I’m excited for Joe. He’ll be back and he’ll get a title shot within a year or two I think.
dude lauzon would fuck all you up. hes was doing good until the elbows. but who cares he will win next time. or florian breaks under the pressure of a tital shot. so florians last two fights went well. deens knee blew out then he elbows the kid to a illegal concusion. NICE!!
title.
tital shot? Is that anything like breast feeding?
I know this is off topic (like alot of posts on here) but if shots that are behind the ear are illegal then gsp DID get hit in the back of the head. The shot that started off Serra’s win was an illegal shot and although i like gsp more than serra..i’m just pointing out the facts. There have even been picks showing that the shot was clearly behind the ear. That makes me think even more that serra is gonna get his a** handed to him on saturday.
So I guess all that talk about Serra shots be ilegal was true, all the big blows, but ONE, we’re landed in the area that Herb describes as ileagle.
Serra should not of even been Champion.
Kenny uses those pussy elbows to end fights by TKO (cuts)….obvious tactic….weak
So Kenny should be banned from using his elbows in case he cuts people??
Ok, lets stop Chuck punching cos he KOs people, Nates got to stop fighting off his back cos he subs people and Karo has got to stop taking people to a decision to win (my bad, he got KTFO!!)
Any way to win the fight thats legal WINS THE FIGHT.
yeah, I don’t like this new look on the posts. Put it back to the free form.
The shots on Lauzon were perfectly legal. Florian has those sharp elbows that open people up. His nickname should be the can opener instead of… errr… Ken Flo.
The Brock Lesnar stoppage I could see but not the point deduction. It was marginal I thought and Mazagati could have just warned him. He said he gave a verbal warning prior to the stoppage but admits it’s hard to hear anything in that environment.
Serra’s blow was perfectly legal. I just hope GSP knocks his elf head off this time.
Kenny did some damage!
I knew those elbows messed up Joe’s gameplan…You got to give Ken respect. Those were some pretty nice shots he landed..
I really hope the UFC match’s up Florian/Huerta fight this summer..
Lauzon was out-classed.
J-Lau put his head into florian’s stomach, where else could Kenny elbow? Amazed at Lauzon’s crying, he basically brain-stemmed Cole Miller, and then pounded out a half dazed fight, what a hypocrite.
Face it J-lau, you are a one-hit wonder, kinda like Houston Alexander, except Houston had 2 hits, so take the crying back to day-care center.
People think Huerta will beat Florian, are you all crazy?
Guida was working Huerta, badly, for 2 rounds, he got caught and lost, shit happens.
Florian will handle Huerta easily.
‘J-Lau put his head into florian’s stomach, where else could Kenny elbow?’
Kenny should be smart enough not to throw a shot that’s going to be illegal. It wasn’t just one illegal strike, it was done multiple times. Florian was looking down at the back of his head and continued to hit him there.
It’s done and he got away with it, I’m sure he’ll be watched closer in the future, but Lauzon wasn’t the same after that.