I think the difference is Karo was able to grab a single leg right away here, but against Alves, he just covered up into a ball.

this shit is getting annoying. the fight is over. karo got crumpled and mazzagatti was close enough to notice it was time to stop it. alves, even though he’s not unbiased, claims the result would have been the same with the stoppage coming moments later. in any case, it’s completely moot.

Karo got KTFO

What do fans want to see? The ref using their best judgement, or a guy ending up in a hospital???

Houston Alexander Karo got KO’d, plain and simple. When you fall on your back, hands limp….fight is over. If the ref doesn’t step in, Houston Karo may be vegetables for life

I guess if it was all good there would be no controversy but that is not the case so it pretty much explains itself.

Even weak knee’s carry a lot more power than a punch. I don’t think Karo even tried to cover up after he dropped last week. If you watch from all the angles, you’ll see that Karo’s right arm just kinda limply falls over his head. It actually doesn’t look like he was trying to cover up at all. In the fight vs. Serra, he was able to instantly go for a take down. He’s a tough dude, no doubt, but he was out after that knee and the subsequent punches. The stoppage was quick, but justified.

doesnt change my mind. i thought it was stopped a little to premature, but i think alves would have won anyway, so i dont have any real problems w/ the stoppage, but just like one poster stated “would they have stopped it so soon if it was big nog?”. doubtfully. was it me or did karo look a little more chunky in this fight than usual. he’s never had a 6 pack, but man his love handles looked big. i’m looking forward to diego/alves if my man john’s prediction comes true.

“I think the difference is Karo was able to grab a single leg right away here, but against Alves, he just covered up into a ball.”

Right on the money, Karo went right for Matts leg in this fight compared to the alves fight. Alves was about to rain down unblocked punches. Karo should be happy they stopped it when they did now he can get back in the gym and work off that belly he was carrying around for this fight. Welcome to the undercard Karo

This is tooooooooo much…Karo lost thats it….its over and done with “HE LOST”…and for any Karo nut huggers, just keep crying about a right call…..look back to the AA vs jake O’brien fight……….now that was a bs call….want to complain ……..do it over something to complain about…..Karo was more than done he was burnt!!!!!

I think the best ref left in the UFC is Mario Yamasaki. He never had any controversey against him, although some people think he ends fights too late when fighters are in trouble.

As soon as Karo began to drop from the knee, Mazzagatti was running over to stop it.
I think he already made the decision.
I understand fighter’s safety and all that. But these guys take alot of punches and kicks. I dont’ think it was too much to ask to have given it another second to see if he was recovering.

good job mazzagatti wasnt in the nate diaz fight.

On another note: Hahaha fat karo can even beat serra. what a loser

Yeah after alot of debate and re-watching the Karo fight I do agree with the decision by Mazzagati. I agree that the difference in the Serra fight was that Karo was able to grab a single-leg.

What the hell happened to Yves Lavigne?? Where has he been lately? Besides Big John I feel Yves is the best in the biz

I´m from Argentina, sorry for my basic english.

This video is some different, Karo take Serra’s Leg in the Alves´s fight he couldn´t take nothing.

Alves going to hit him much…

Remember also that as a growing sport, the last thing MMA needs is for a fighter in the biggest company to suffer brain damage.

this is dumb!!! IT’S O-V-E-R!!!! OVER!!!! he lost and that’s that! move on… but then again, it’s funny to watch it over and over again, someone getting KNOCKED OUT! like always, “another GLASS JAW!” hahahaha… too funny!

well you see different ref, mario i like him as a ref.

But matt serra rocked karo but didnt have as much of a follow up as thiago did with punches landed 4 after the knee.

Where in the serra fight, i think serra got like 1 punch in before karo grabbed serra’s leg.

OMFG enough of this shit already. the fight was stopped. its over. theres nothing you can do about it. get over it.

EVERYONE KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE ALREADY, KARO REACHED FOR A SINGLE LEG RIGHT AWAY, AGAINST ALVES HE JUST GOT KTFO LIKE A RAG DOLL AND HIS FACE TOUCHED HIS TOES, NEED I SAY MORE???

After I watched the Houston Alexander fight again, I realized that situation was going to do nothing but get worse. He was dazed and confused. But Karo on the other hand I think if he would have had just a few more seconds he could have recovered but who is to say he would have won anyway? I predicted Karo to win but if I would have known he would have shown up to the fight with love handles and a Chuck Liddell gut I never would have picked him to win. I know he is never really ripped up but he was unusually chubby.

OMFG enough of this shit already. the fight was stopped. its over. theres nothing you can do about it. get over it.
OMFG if you don’t like the topic or you feel it is getting old don’t comment.

It absolutely does not lend any credibility. This is not a court of law with preprecedence & punishment. It’s a referee’s call. End of Story.

what is with all you closet sausage jockeys? if someone if a fan of a fighter he is a nut hugger if not then he is a hater. go the F*CK UP! I have seen Maz stop a bunch of fights early. Houston was done, agreed, Karo had a chance Maz needs to go back to ref training school…..let the bashing begin.

what is with all you closet sausage jockeys? if someone is a fan of a fighter he is a nut hugger if not then he is a hater. grow the F*CK UP! I have seen Maz stop a bunch of fights early. Houston was done, agreed, Karo had a chance Maz needs to go back to ref training school…..let the bashing begin.(fixed typos)

I don’t blame Mazzagatti for an honest mistake, but it was definitely a little bit premature.

man my honest opinion about karo, who i like by the way is that he has been relying on skill way to heavily over his career. conditioning has never been important to him, and as he is now realizing when you start to get a little older you can’t just show up and win all the fights. i learned that same lesson in the army. when i was young i would just show up for my pt test and ace it. when i started to get a little older i tried that and did horrible. not mma but i can see similarities. im not talking 30s either, im talking early 20s to late 20s. karo got caught with a good shot, its a shame he didn’t find this fight more important and show up in top condition.

It doesn’t matter. It’s over. Mazzagatti made the call that he gets paid to make. If a fighter looks like they are in reall trouble, he steps in. Thats what he did.

Mazzagati made the right call.

yeah good call pat. karo immediately went for the single leg, but with alves he just collapsed into a fetal position

I think he could have possibly recovered, but you never know. Also, it doesn’t matter, since we’re not the OFFICIAL in the Octagon.

Bruce Apr 6th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

>This is tooooooooo much…Karo lost thats it….its over and done >with “HE LOST”…and for any Karo nut huggers, just keep crying >about a right call…..look back to the AA vs jake O’brien >fight……….now that was a bs call….want to complain ……..do it >over something to complain about…..Karo was more than done he >was burnt!!!

AA vs jake O’brien?? that call was fine. when AA can look at the ref and say “whats up” while still landing big punches to the dudes head … he is no longer defending himself properly.

>I think the difference is Karo was able to grab a single
>leg right away here, but against Alves, he just covered
>up into a ball.
Bingo- first posting nails it!

Has anyone seen or heard from Karo since the loss? No post fight interviews? I’ve seen nothing. But if an interview exists I’m sure it’s of him whining.

I was just happy to finally see one of his fights not go to a decision. Seriously though, as others here have already mentioned, Karo was even more out of shape than usual and yes, I think he’s been relying on his experience more than anything for the last year or so.

When I think of some of the fighters who have been shown the door over the years for being “boring”, it kind of drives me nuts to see him remain in the fold. Top it off with his public announcement that he wanted a “more guaranteed win” fight and I must admit to being more than just a little glad to see him lose.

As soon as Karo began to drop from the knee, Mazzagatti was running over to stop it.
I think he already made the decision.
I understand fighter’s safety and all that. But these guys take alot of punches and kicks. I dont’ think it was too much to ask to have given it another second to see if he was recovering.

Big John, we need you back man becuase because the only good ref we have is Herb Dean and they won’t let him ref them all. We would like to see a fighter have a chance to recover and not have the fight stopped from one devastating blow. Maybe karo would not have been able to recover but someone like Matt Hamill or Wanderlei would have been able to recover and the fans deserve to not be left with a WHAT IF.
FREE BIG JOHN! LOL!

When you are half out and mounted and your opponent is STILL hitting you, it is only a matter of more punches untill you are right out(or severly injured). Totally different if you grab a leg and hang on to get your composure back. Karo lost, plain and simple.

why is this even an issue up for discussion. Karo was dead in the water. Thaigo turned his lights out plain and simple. Karo ought to call Steve and thank him for saving his bacon.

It is not like these two guys got dropped and they called the fight. They got dropped, then followed with unanswered, undefended strikes.

All the work that UFC and other fight organazations have done to mainstream mma would be ripped away as fast as it came up if the refs did not stop these fights. The state athletic commision are the ones who can change rules and ban mma from states. All they care about is safety.

I think probably because this is one of the first mma shows back in Colorado after a long time, the UFC probably wanted to be as safe as possible. The athletic commission may have even warned the refs to stop things as early as possible. Maybe after a few fights in Colorado, the commission might relax a bit and the refs might let the fights go on a little bit more before a stoppage. I don’t think stopping it any later would’ve changed the outcome, though.

“As soon as Karo began to drop from the knee, Mazzagatti was running over to stop it.
I think he already made the decision.”

The refs are told to get a closer view if a fighter is rocked, otherwise they keep their distance from the fighters. They get a better view of the action, plus they can just step right in to stop it.

Plain and simple Karo made such and huge deal because as he WOKE up from his flash KO, HE KNEW HIS TITLE SHOT WAS GONE FOR NOW!!!!!!!

Karo instantly went for and grabbed a leg for a takedown. Karo was knocked out briefly and Steve may of stopped it jsut a second or 2 earlier……..BUT IT WAS THE RIGHT CALL. Karo would of only got his head punched in a few more times adn really knocked out cold and maybe even damaged

anybody that says thats a bad call is jus stupid he was out

Mazzagatti’s the Man. He made 2 very difficult decisions and he was correct on both of them. Karo fans are just finding excuses for his poor showing.

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I have to agree with Pat (first comment above). The two instances were different. Had Karo grabbed Thiago’s leg, or fended for himself a little, I doubt the ref would have stepped in. But he crumpled like a rag doll.

A friend of mine also mentioned that Thiago is known for his striking power. The ref simply couldn’t allow Thiago to pound on Karo in that defenseless state.

Interestingly, in an article in Fight magazine that Big John wrote, he said that a ref who knows the game well, and knows the fighters in a match, sees the fight in slow motion. So, what looks like a “early” stoppage to us, is almost always very justified.

it was a good stoppage. Karo nuthuggers need to let it go, and accept that he got KTFO by the knee.

Sorry Karo fans, he was out. Plain and simple. He got hit by a vicious knee and was hit clean at least four times. Mazzagatti had to stop it. I know Karo was right up thereafter, but still, he was out cold for that moment.

shiiiiiiit…. i had money on karo at -220 and i still don’t think the stoppage was premature!

completly different situation.
in both cases Karo eats a huge shot and drops. In the Serra fight he grabs a leg, he probaly wasn’t even out in that fight just got knocked down and in the alves fight curls up into a ball.
This is like I said completly different situation.
Karo lost, it happened, the call is fine, the ref knows what he’s doing, been doing it awhile, longer than any of us so….

Lidell is a better fighter than karo and as much as i love karo, a flash ko is just that, a KO.

IMMEDIATE REMATCH! MAKE IT HAPPEN! it will be good for everyone.

fans of thiago want the second straight win

fans of Karo feel it was unjustified

THE FANS WANT AN IMMEDIATE REMATCH.

AND this will give jon fitch TIME to fight the champion

the really stupid thing about this whole argument is the point many seem to be making that karo, if he ‘only had a couple more seconds would have recovered’…this is ridiculous considering alves was nearly on top of him and was in perfect position to pound him out even further. karo was not in position to go for a leg OR pull guard to try and diminsh any offense from alves. alves is in prime position to torch him up even more.

Yes, still agree with the stoppage.

It was an OK stoppage, it could have gone on a second or two longer for a better evaluation, but ’safety 1st’ I think Mazagatti is calling them a little earlier nowadays this may hurt his reputation and possibly evaluation for referee of future big time fights

from what the video shows it seems like it was stopped a little early. his arms weren’t flopping to the sides from being unconscious unlike houston alexander. and i think a gritty veteran like karo (and probably any other ufc fighter also) deserves the right to be given time to possibly recoup. alves might’ve finished him off anyway, but these fights are huge in terms of fighter’s careers (win and a possible title shot, lose and ur back to the end of the line). when in doubt, it’s good to at least give a fighter a moment to see if he can recover.

Brandon, Karo came back and won that Serra fight! That is why this video is being posted it’s the point, he was rocked then came back and won a decision. Do research before you post dum comments. Given Karo’s experience he deserved a bit more time.

re: the gamburyan post that got deleted.. that was a cheap shot. what a munchkin.

Karo was able to make a grab for Serra’s leg, he wasn’t out like the other night

for everyone whining that mazagatti should’ve given karo an extra few seconds simply because of karo’s “experience” or because karo “deserved” it as a veteran and contender: you have got to be kidding.

since when are referees “supposed” to show favoritism in ANY fight?! karos a veteran? karos a contender? so what?!

and to the guy who compared karo to big nog: ill admit i havent seen EVERY single big nog fight, but the ones i saw where he got rocked…well, lets just say not once was he ever put in the position where he was french-kissing his foot.

LOOK Mazzagatti did Karo A favor , if he would have won he is going to get his ass kicked by anyone in the top 5 anyway so what the point end of story… he got his ass kicked anyway thanks for the memories you had a decent career but you have made it as high as you ever will!

Karo was hurt he was on his way out

Yeah, Nog is a different story. Nog’s been knocked down before but he was still conscious and intelligently defending himself. His head just takes a licking. The refs can tell the difference. Watch Nog against Silvia. Nog goes down but his arms aren’t limply flailing around. He’s probably more waiting for the guy to pounce on him so he can try and submit him. Steve didn’t have a full view of Karo’s face and eyes, but the way he crumpled and then wasn’t really defending the punches, it certainly looked like Karo wasn’t going to make it.

The above video isn’t working for me. Any apple users experiencing this?

BTW, I see this in sports all the time. Karo waiting around and trying to protect his title shot is a mistake. I see people do this in Basketball all the time. teams get big leads from running and shooting or whatever, and then they suddenly change, they start playing slow, trying to work the clock, play not to lose. I very often see teams lose this way. Same thing happened with Karo. Trying to get guaranteed wins, trying to to fight too often until he gets the title shot. That’s just bad decisionmaking.

Look at GSP, always stays in shape, always ready for the opportunity to fight, makes the best out of his losses and faces them with honesty and allows them to make him stronger. I honestly believe that GSP, for that reason alone will hold the title for a very long time. If he doesn’t he’s going to keep re-winning it.

I lot of people are saying that it was a good stoppage because they are Karo haters and Fitch lovers, and do not want Karo to have his shot at the belt. Some probably genuinely believe it was stopped in time. I personally believe watching not only the Serra fight but watching his tooth fly out against Diego and just because of how damn tough he is, it should have gone on a bit longer. Mir was getting a pasting by Lesner and just when you thought it was over for him, he grabbed a leg and got the submission. Karo is one of the toughest in the division, even though the chance would have been very slim, him getting the victory after that knockdown, he still did have a slight chance, and we all know anything can happen in MMA.

WHATS GOING ON HERE? ARE WE LOSING THE “QUOTE” FEATURE??? Or is the site experiencing some techinical difficulties? I really hope that its the latter of the two, because losing the “quote” button would be a mistake in my opinion, its used to keep conversations going and to argue valid points.

Come on are u all idiots or what, a knockout is a knockout. OUT means unconscience, does not matter if it is 1sec,3secor 10secs, if he is out at all it is a knockout period.GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. A KNOCKOUT IS A KNOCKOUT IS A KNOCKOUT. UNDERSTAND PEOPLE…….GOOD. now MOVE ON.

not alot of news on this site? 4 articles a day?

kendall grove is fighting evan tanner at tough 7

who’s deleting my posts????????

This is probably one of the most repetetive subject to respond to. Half of the people continue to say he could have gone longer, and the other half say the difference was the single-leg. Over and over I keep seeing the same posts. lol That pretty much means we have no idea if it should have been stopped or not.

Jesse: I know you predicted Karo last week and I told you Alves was going to win, but can we please leave this subject alone? LOL… Stop trying to justify Karo’s Loss. He got KNocked OUT PERIOD!!! Enough already

Hopefully we dont have to hear about that ego maniac for at least another 4 months!

After Serra looses to GSP, I would like to see a rematch between Karo vs. Serra!

whats all the fuss about this for, what about houston alexander poeple WAKE UP…. that was a bad stoppege

He recovered well after the serra punch and looked fine to me, after alves he dropped like a rock and curled up not the same.

Karo should be thankful it was stopped, how is curling up in a ball, not protecting his head…..defending himself, man up Karo you lost, gsp did it, your human after all, you can be stopped.

Karo was fine he got robbed!! This shit is only comming from hatters!!