he was done IMO

The knee clearly dropped him, but from where I’m sitting Thiago only landed one clean shot after that.

That, in my opinion, is the tell, tale sign of whether someone is out — whether their arms are flapping on the ground while he takes punches to the face. I would have liked more time.

Def. PREMATURE-STOPAGE, Mazzagatti is an IDIOT!!!

Well that’ll teach Karo to “duck competition” in order to get his definite title fight.
Karo “Asleep” Parisyan HAhaaa
Oh yeah, and the pitbull is a beast, he’ll be moving up sooner rather than later

Yes, I think it was a little too early. At this level you got to let a guy get finished. He took 4 unanswered blows to ear, chin,chest and shoulder only one of which looked even kind of hard.

Early stoppages happen…Karo and the Pitbull was a bit fast, but was a right call. Karo dropped to his ass after the knee, and fell to his back immediately. Therfore, Karo naturally covered up(cause thats what fighters do) but definately was beat. Regardless of Steve stopping the fight early, 4 maybe 5 more seconds in the fight Karo would have had a mean looking gash or two on his face…It is a great call by Steve..I’m with him 100%..

I thought it was premature last night , but after watching that angle , Karo was out he flopped down and was lucky his hands landed where they did. I mean Thiago didnt follow up well but at that point the damage was done.

Bull…He was out…Just like Alexander he was out for a second or two and then came back to…Great stop…He was done…Go cry on Randy’s shoulder…

Absolutely justtified. He wasn’t as out as Houston. But he can’t argue anything. Mazzagati did the right thing by stepping in when he did. If he hadn’t Thiago would have BELTED him in the face over and over and over! He’s a pitbull, he’s not going to stop until someone pulls him off.

A few more second would have only resulted on Karo looking even dumber than usual.

Cmon, neither Mazzagatti stoppages were early. Karo is so overrated, and the fact that Thiago trained in judo takedown defense was the difference…it didn’t give Karo the opportunity to lay on him for a decision. Also Boetch looked real good against Hammil, and the 2 week notice to fight at 5500 feet wasn’t enough time to prepare him for the altitude. I judge guys by how they’d do against a champ, Hammil would get owned as well as Kenny Florian, and I’m a fan of Kenny.

Sleep KAro Sleep! You and Houston cry each other asleep for the next few nights….

I am of the opinion that if your standing up and suddenly your face touches your feet, your out.

he was done, he wouldn’t have come to if alves had kept hitting him

[quote post=”5650″]I am of the opinion that if your standing up and suddenly your face touches your feet, your out.[/quote]
LMAO

Cmon there is no debating this. He is a world class title contender and he deserves better than that. After the knee it looks like one or maybe two shots actually connected. Out of the last three shots two missed completely and the last hit him on the arm.

This is not the first time mazzastoppi has done this. He should not be anywhere near title fights or top contenders. In fact he should be canned. Or at least have his bag shaved with a dull razor so he can walk around scratching his nuts for a few weeks.

hahha….. whats the word i’m looking for….. oh yea he got maulled lol

it could have gone on longer…but it would have been the same result

of course it was a good stop…Karo would of been fucked up if he had of taken one or two more clean shots..he was out!!!.
I kind of wish the ref hadnt of stopped it, I hate Karo. You had to know that if he did lose this fight for whatever reason that he would bitch about it…and say it wasn’t his fault…he always bitches and whines.

As someone said ealier…the Houston stoppage was a good one too…of course these guys are going to wake up after a second or two after getting hammered…it still means they are out, and that is when the ref should jump in. Yes HA woke up…but that was clearly after being hit 1-2 more times.

The ref is not stopping it to piss us off…he is doing it to save the fighter some serious damage. I think there would be a lot more people complaining on here if the ref had of let it go too long and either one of Karo or Houston had of been hurt a lot worse. my opinion.

I think

It’s always hard to tell because a lot of times guys jump right up after being stopped but who’s to say if they took 1 or 2 more punches they’d be really hurt. Nate Diaz took a crazy amount of unanswered blows and his arms were trapped unable to defend and that fight didn’t get stopped. I just wish there was more consistancy in ref stoppages.

[quote post=”5650″]I am of the opinion that if your standing up and suddenly your face touches your feet, your out.[/quote]

LOL…actually, his face touched his knee…then the floor. but i hear what youre saying!

I think it was a completely justified stoppage! Karo got dropped and folded up by a picture perfect knee and was taking shot after shot. While I agree that not all connected, Karo wasn’t gonna escape from that onslaught. I think the Houston / Irvin stoppage was much more questionable than this one.

When watching live I thought this fight was stopped a little early. Watching the replay I thought it may have been a little early. Watching the posted clip I am not so sure??? There is no doubt or denying he was hurt bad, but was still covering though maybe not intelligently. More fetal like. Better to err on the side of caution.

The blows on the ground woke Karo up, and ultimately played against Thiago because they made the stoppage “controversial”. Although, IMO the stoppage was excellent. Had Thiago walked away after the knee it would have been stopped right away, with Karo’s legs folded up underneath him and I believe there would have been less argument.

People need to realize this isn’t boxing, there are no counts and no recovery time. The Big Nog fight has everybody believing that guys need to be pummeled for like 45 seconds before stopping the fight.

He would have kept getting pounded in the face, and could have gotten seriously hurt… Good stoppage

I didn’t think the stop was premature so to speak, however I would have given Karo a little bit longer. Those who have been cracked before know that sometimes when you get hit your legs can just go out from under you and you can still be somewhat aware of what is going on. Given the fact that these guys train so hard and for long, I am willing to give a seasoned vet a little more time than someone who is pretty new. After Karo hit the ground, Alves 2nd, 3rd and 4th punches did not hit Karo in the face. Despite how long these refs have done this I think they get a little nervous when they see someone go down and can get a little to excited and over-react.

Justified stoppage in a lower end fight. However, I personally would have given it another couple seconds considering the caliber of fighter. Even so, I don’t believe the outcome would be different.

Theres not even an argument to be made. Karo was out. If the ref had let it go on it would have only been even worst for Karos face. Come to think about it the ref is an idiot, he should have let Thiago beat his ugly face to a bloody pulp even more

Maybe this is what Karo needed to get his ass in the gym. He looked soft and out of shape. He is one of those guys who relys on his talant. You need to put in the work if you want to be a champion. Sucks for Karo back to the bottom again.

Ptrobobly early but only by a few seconds. If he’d kept punching for another few seconds i’d have thought it would have definetly been stopped.

[quote comment=”401162″]It’s always hard to tell because a lot of times guys jump right up after being stopped but who’s to say if they took 1 or 2 more punches they’d be really hurt. Nate Diaz took a crazy amount of unanswered blows and his arms were trapped unable to defend and that fight didn’t get stopped. I just wish there was more consistancy in ref stoppages.[/quote]

I agree with you.

Come on people, every fighter should get a chance at a recovery, he should only get few sec, but everyone who gets dropped should get a chance to regroup and attempt to hold on while trying to recover. Most that go to the ground after being caught are out for a split sec, and we can’t call a fight at that point can we, se if fighter following to finish is able to land some punches the fight should be stopped for safety, but if they swing wildly and hit mostly shoulder then the fighter should get few more sec. I don’t know if Alvez was going to finish the job in the few punches that would have followed, or if Karo was going to be able to grab on and hold on till he recovered a bit more…..point being we will never know now, but we should have had a chance to see it. Houston was way different cause his arms were down not protecting himself, and the hardest punches came after the initial knock down…. big difference

It was a very premature stoppage. I agree with Jase. The refs need to be more consistant. He saw a punch thrown while karo was on the ground….it hit his bicept. I do like that new young guy. Look at the Matt Hamill fight. Thats how you need to stop fights. This isn’t boxing.

[quote comment=”401205″]Justified stoppage in a lower end fight. However, I personally would have given it another couple seconds considering the caliber of fighter. Even so, I don’t believe the outcome would be different.[/quote]

I agree. Karo is a UFC veteran. He should have had another 2-3 seconds. I don’t think he was in great risk of injury if another 2 punches landed. Result may have been the same but it wouldn’t be contested then. Thiago clearly figured out he was ducking his head too much.

I am a little torn between it being a tad bit too early or justified…

I like to compare these incidents to the Nog/Herring 3 near KO of Nog….

I see the difference in the way they fell, Karo seemed to go totally limp, where as Nog kind of fell down, rolled on his back, BUT, rolled back into balance and put his arms up, Karo’s arms don’t seem to be actively moving or trying to thwart Alves punches…

* Houston was OUT…

[quote comment=”401111″]Well that’ll teach Karo to “duck competition” in order to get his definite title fight.
Karo “Asleep” Parisyan HAhaaa
Oh yeah, and the pitbull is a beast, he’ll be moving up sooner rather than later[/quote]

Did you listen to him after the fight…..He doesnt want another good fighter

Good stoppage. Karo is just a whiner.

the heat was out
houston was out
JUSTIFIED STOPPAGES

You can clearly see his knees buckle after that knee to the face. Same as the Houston fight, i think the ref should let it go a few seconds longer, letting Karo get his face smashed in a little more so that he won’t have anymore lame excuses.

karos arms fell into a position to absorb some of those blows he didnt put them there to defend himself.

Horrible call! Houston’s call can be justified, but this one clearly shows it was premature.

I’ve wqtched this like 20-30 times now and I believe it was maybe one or two tenths of a second early, but the fight was over, regardless. There’s no way Karo wouldn’t have been totally KO’d if Maz had waited even half a second.

I was happy to see Karo get dropped. Clearly that knee had a big impact. Look at Karo’s body heave upward from the impact, my best guess is that Karo was unconcious before he hit the ground then was pounded back awake by a couple of blows from Thiago.In my opinion it was a good stoppage.

I think Karo was out, he probably could have recovered but maybe not..mazzagatti did the right thing by stepping in but if i was the ref i would have let Karo take a couple more blows before callin it a night…at the same time i feel like these refs are trying to protect the image of the sport more than anything..it was a live event on national TV, i feel like they didnt want anything to brutal to happen bc it would leave room for mma haters to make a big deal out of.

IMO he would have taken alot more damage if Mazz didn’t step in. Even Rogan thought it was a fair stoppage, and he only took his head out of Karo’s ass for a second to see that.

Who thinks that was too early?? Get a CLUE!!! He was sitting on the mat UNCONCIOUS! Maz saved him from getting carried out on a stretcher and that’s what he’s supposed to do. Karo’s Good/Karo’s Bad is besides the point, he got caught with a massive knee that KO’d him. As good as they are, Randy, Chuck, Rich, Matt Hughes, GSP etc etc have all been KO’d.

[quote comment=”401230″][quote comment=”401111″]Well that’ll teach Karo to “duck competition” in order to get his definite title fight.
Karo “Asleep” Parisyan HAhaaa
Oh yeah, and the pitbull is a beast, he’ll be moving up sooner rather than later[/quote]

Did you listen to him after the fight…..He doesnt want another good fighter[/quote]

What did he say?

It was a good stoppage, they were out, if he let them go longer it was unnecessary, just more punishment.

I think it was a good call. He was rocked and went to the fetal position, which his coahc Randy even says isnt a intelligent defense…Its kind of a catch 22…Karo is a savvy veteren who has never been knocked out, so most refs would give him a chance to recooperate, however, there are about 2 or 3 Welterwights that the ref can absolutely not let tee off on a half unconscious dude, and Alves is definately one of them, same with Marcus Davis just too much power to let them do that…its a sport, and on national tv, the fight was over, so it was a good stoppage…all of them last night were good stoppages..

Dude karo is a dirty persian he was out then wined like a little kid after it.

A little early imo, but I don’t blame Mazz for stopping it. Karo got rocked and the chances of him recovering were slime to none.

I wish all referees would let the fight go on a little longer just to silence most of the haters, but that wouldn’t be fair for the person that is losing. When you fight you should avoid being in the position where the ref will stop the fight, it’s out of your hands and karo wasn’t really doing anything to avoid the blows. good stoppage.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? It’s a BAD STOPPAGE!

Karo Vs Matt Serra- Karo walks into a HUGE right and gets dropped in the same manner and comes back and wins the fight!

Karo Vs Diego Sanchez- Karo eats an upper cut and gets dropped in the first round that was also an eye poke. He was eating HUGE unanswered blows as Diego smelled blood. He came back and that fight could have gone both ways.

Karo is much like Forrest Griffin in many of his fights, he needs to get beaten up or dropped for him to get angry and come back and fight/win.

How could you not give a seasoned vet 2 more seconds to recover?

EARLY STOPPAGE! Mazaggati blows.

It was an early stoppage. The following punches didn’t really land cleanly.

The result might have been the same had they let it continue, but why let there be doubt?

Karo is a top competitor, and a warrior IMO.

At least let the guy get a chance to be KO’ed so there’d be no excuses.

Protecting the fighters should only go so far. Karo’s reputation and title shot were on the line…LET IT HAVE A DECISIVE ENDING!

i wanted thiago to knock him out so that karo wouldnt talk crap afterwards

Appeared to be an early stoppage. While Karo definately got rocked by the knee he still covered up and Thiago only land the first shot clean, the three latter shots didnt land anywhere. Mazaggati has just shown too much of a history of stopping fights too early, look at the last fight wit florian and louzan, kenny had the mount and was landing soo many shots but joe was defending himself and herb dean waiting until he stopped defending himself and didnt respond to his warnings of stopping the fight before actually stopping it. I get the whole fighter safety thing but one or two more extra shots isnt going to cripple a guy, come on!!! Still doesnt excuse Karo as he looked out of shape and most likely didnt take this fight that seriously, as evidence by his trash talking of Fitch before this fight. He’ll be lucky to get on the ppv main card now after this fight.

when karo got up he didnt seem to be hurt but when u see the knee to the head karo’s knees buckled he was clearly out cold…..if even for a second he was diffently out cold ..his knee would not of buckled if he was not out cold…..It was a good call,

I thought anyways!!

solid knee, 2 semihard punches landed, 2 missed punches…. a few more would have put him to sleep. looks bad. outcome would’ve been the same either way.

the knee did drop him but he was still defending himself and not in a “locked” position a la florian-lauzon.

Its one thing to stop a fight when the fighter is on the ground and goes limp, his eyes go in the back of his head or he is just unable to defend himself. you can clearly see that neither of these happened to Karo. he wasnt totally knocked out and should have been allowed to continue. But being that he’s facing someone like Thiago i think the fight would have ended soon enough b/c of thago’s striking ability. still doesnt excuse mazzagoti for getting this one wrong!!!

Comparing this stoppage to the non-stoppage when Heath Herring dropped Big Nog, I’d have to change my original opinion that it was a good stoppage. Maybe it wasn’t. Herring did almost the same thing, though, in all fairness, Big Nog never went limp like a rag doll. He bounced back in less than half a second. Like Big John said in Fight magazine, when you understand the game inside and out, and you know the fighters, that slows that action down tremendously so that the refs can make good calls… even if they don’t look like good calls at first.

HOuston was out 100%.

Karo was done too. But had a slim chance of coming out of it…

The UFC almost need 3 Side Referee’s that call something like that… Each has a button and all three buttons need to be pressed to sound a signal to the ref. This could be done with a headpiece too so the ref is aware of infractions. Hitting to the head, Low blows etc. Different tones for different calls.

This way it spreads the blame and the ref doesnt catch flak.

The officials have to evolve not just the fighters and rules.

[quote comment=”401169″]I think it was a completely justified stoppage! Karo got dropped and folded up by a picture perfect knee and was taking shot after shot. While I agree that not all connected, Karo wasn’t gonna escape from that onslaught. I think the Houston / Irvin stoppage was much more questionable than this one.[/quote]
It’s really hard to tell. With Karo, I think even if Mazz let it go on longer it would have ended the same. Both Houston and Karo were seriously hurt and borderline conscious. To me it looked like Houston could have gotten back in it if they had let it go on longer.

[quote comment=”401313″]I wish all referees would let the fight go on a little longer just to silence most of the haters, but that wouldn’t be fair for the person that is losing. When you fight you should avoid being in the position where the ref will stop the fight, it’s out of your hands and karo wasn’t really doing anything to avoid the blows. good stoppage.[/quote]

GOOD STOPPAGE!! 1st of all we cant even really see Karo’s eyes. when the eyes roll in the back of the head…FIGHT OVER!!!
Karo’s legs went limp and he crumbled, then Tiago threw some shots 1 landed and Karo’s body went limp for a second but thats all it takes. It was a flash Knockout so the fight was over, the fact that Karo then recovered means nothing because that is the definition of a “flash KO”.

Anyone who will argue with any of the stoppages last night is delusional.

Jesse: Watching round 2 of the fight, I thought that Tiago was getting Karo’s timing down and it would just be a matter of time before he took Karo out, and then BANG!!! I thought he was out, how did you interpret it?

I remember that after Irvin’s fight with Hector Ramirez, he clocked Ramirez and KO’d him, then turned around cause he knew Ramirez was out but the ref didn’t know yet. When the ref didn’t stop it Irvin went in for a few more strikes till the ref realized what happened. So I don’t know, I think Irvin has goos instincts for when he hurts someone. And he says he hurt Houston pretty bad, so. I still think it was a little early.

I wonder who’s going to get KO of the night? I love when there’s so many good fights that it’s hard to choose. You have to look at the quality of the fighter that gets KO’d. I might have to give it to James Irvin, just cause it was so fast. Anthony Johnson also had a damn good punch land on Speers.

[quote comment=”401240″]the heat was out
houston was out
JUSTIFIED STOPPAGES[/quote]
100% agreed!

too soon. karo had his hands up. i am not a karo fan. nuff said.

just look at the gif, mazzagatti was right there, Karo’s eyes were probably rolled back…great stoppage. Karo is way overrated

It was a fair stoppage by Mazagatti. No question about it. If he didn’t step in when he did Thiago would have kept pounding on Karo. He was ROCKED by the knee, and might have been covering up, but with a stricker as skilled as Thiago he would have been out cold after a couple more blows. For the people who think Karo is a great fighter i disagree. I would barely put him in the top 10 in the UFC in his division. He has sloopy-ass stand up, mediocre ground game, and always looks out of shape. Yeah, he can throw anyone around the ring, but thats about it. I’m glad to see him lose. Hopefully, he’ll lose his next fight and get dropped from the UFC.

From my view, it seems the consensus is that 2 more seconds would’ve been great, but they probably wouldn’t have changed the outcome, it would’ve just change the popular opinion.

[quote comment=”401108″]The knee clearly dropped him, but from where I’m sitting Thiago only landed one clean shot after that.

That, in my opinion, is the tell, tale sign of whether someone is out — whether their arms are flapping on the ground while he takes punches to the face. I would have liked more time.[/quote]

Precisely. Karo was possibly in line for a title fight. You don’t end a fight early when there is that much on the line.

Good Stoppage by the ref. Karo should consider himself lucky that the knee he ate didn’t knock another tooth out. I posted this on another thread, but does anyone else think Karo was more than a little flabby? He jiggled while he moved and had an f ing pooch over his shorts. A drop to 155 (and he could do it, he’d just have to up his cardio) would make him an immediate title threat to whoever has it at the time.

If mazzagatti was the judge for big nog vs heath herring, Herring would have won.

[quote comment=”401411″]If mazzagatti was the judge for big nog vs heath herring, Herring would have won.[/quote]

Then fatty tim sylvia would be our heavyweight champ

Maybe Mazz would’ve let the fight go on longer had Karo not looked like a beached whale.

Karo seriously needs to lay off the Krispy Kreme.

[quote comment=”401348″]Comparing this stoppage to the non-stoppage when Heath Herring dropped Big Nog, I’d have to change my original opinion that it was a good stoppage. Maybe it wasn’t. Herring did almost the same thing, though, in all fairness, Big Nog never went limp like a rag doll. He bounced back in less than half a second. Like Big John said in Fight magazine, when you understand the game inside and out, and you know the fighters, that slows that action down tremendously so that the refs can make good calls… even if they don’t look like good calls at first.[/quote]

That’s a good point about knowing the fighters. Didn’t Mazz say in an interview after the Mir/Lesnar fight that he doesn’t try to learn about the fighters in his matches?

i woulda waited a few more seconds… he was hittin karos arm for cryin out loud

[quote comment=”401137″]I am of the opinion that if your standing up and suddenly your face touches your feet, your out.[/quote]
lmao, good point

Karo was done. Maz made the right call. Just look at Karo’s arms flapping like a flag in the wind. Legs limp. He was out.

Alves did what is called “lazy finish” where he just tried to throw some punches from a standing position. Nobody would have argued if Alves would have mounted Karo and rained down elbows but regardless both results would have been a loss for Karo. Except the latter would yield much more damage on Karo, maybe permanent.

One more thing, I’ve read that a lot of people referencing eyes rolling up or rolling to the back of the head as a good indication of somebody being knocked out. I can personally witnessed knockouts where the guy’s eyes are wide open and looking straight ahead as if the person was still fully awake. Trust me, that is not a good way to measure if somebody is knocked out.

[quote comment=”401423″][quote comment=”401348″]Comparing this stoppage to the non-stoppage when Heath Herring dropped Big Nog, I’d have to change my original opinion that it was a good stoppage. Maybe it wasn’t. Herring did almost the same thing, though, in all fairness, Big Nog never went limp like a rag doll. He bounced back in less than half a second. Like Big John said in Fight magazine, when you understand the game inside and out, and you know the fighters, that slows that action down tremendously so that the refs can make good calls… even if they don’t look like good calls at first.[/quote]

That’s a good point about knowing the fighters. Didn’t Mazz say in an interview after the Mir/Lesnar fight that he doesn’t try to learn about the fighters in his matches?[/quote]

I believe he did say that.

YEA HE HIT HIS UNDERARM AFTER THE KNEE AND 4 OTHER FISTS TO THE FACE, KARO IS A WHINNY BIT#%, HE GOT KTFO… GREAT STOPAGE, I WOULD BE SAYING IT WAS GREAT EVEN IF IT WAS A FIGHTER I LIKED TOO…

[quote comment=”401315″]ARE YOU KIDDING ME? It’s a BAD STOPPAGE!

Karo Vs Matt Serra- Karo walks into a HUGE right and gets dropped in the same manner and comes back and wins the fight!

Karo Vs Diego Sanchez- Karo eats an upper cut and gets dropped in the first round that was also an eye poke. He was eating HUGE unanswered blows as Diego smelled blood. He came back and that fight could have gone both ways.

Karo is much like Forrest Griffin in many of his fights, he needs to get beaten up or dropped for him to get angry and come back and fight/win.

How could you not give a seasoned vet 2 more seconds to recover?

EARLY STOPPAGE! Mazaggati blows.[/quote]

i agree, if it where nog in there they would not have stopped it.

First of all I’m not a Karo fan although you can’t denie he is a great fighter. I think the fight was stopped to soon. If he would have been out his hands would have fell to the side (like Houston’s hands did for a split second). He simply covered up like any fighter does when they get knocked on their butt. These are top UFC fighters not fighters on The Ultimate Fighter. When this much is on the line, let the fight get finished for sure. Then we wouldn’t have to debate whether it was an early stoppage or not. Bottom line he was still protecting himself, he didn’t tap, and the fight should have continued.

the houston stopage i completely agree with, but after seeing karo getting dropped by sera I think mazagatti should have let him take one or two more punches, karos tough but he was seriously rocked but not out. Who knows maybe the next one or two would have put him to sleep for good

[quote comment=”401398″]It was a fair stoppage by Mazagatti. No question about it. If he didn’t step in when he did Thiago would have kept pounding on Karo. He was ROCKED by the knee, and might have been covering up, but with a stricker as skilled as Thiago he would have been out cold after a couple more blows. For the people who think Karo is a great fighter i disagree. I would barely put him in the top 10 in the UFC in his division. He has sloopy-ass stand up, mediocre ground game, and always looks out of shape. Yeah, he can throw anyone around the ring, but thats about it. I’m glad to see him lose. Hopefully, he’ll lose his next fight and get dropped from the UFC.[/quote]

If he would have been out cold then that’s what we should have been able to see. Then like I said earlier, we wouldn’t have to debate on if it was an earlier stoppage.

this was a justified stoppage unlike the houston alexander one

You don’t have to be out cold to get stopped. You have to be “intelligently defending yourself”. If you’re just covering yourself and crumpling up into a ball like you’re in the fetal position, that’s not intelligently defending yourself.

Knees buckled right away and he didn’t have his hands up to block the haymakers coming at him so its the right call. He could have let Karo take more shots to the head but probably figured the guy is dumb enough already and doesn’t need any more brain damage due to head trauma so he called it.
On the bad side of it I knew instantly that since they stopped the fight before Karo was beat senseless that he would be making excuses that he wasn’t done yet. He might not have been totally done when they called the match but he would have been totally done given 5 more seconds. He was hurt and didn’t have a chance after eating the knee.
I do have one suggestion for Karo though. Jon Fitch had no problem beating Thiago Alvez so maybe Karo should come to some of Fitch’s clinics or hire him for private lessons? What do you all think? hahaha

Overall a good call to stop the fight.

Knee dropped him and he was not intelligently defending himself. His arms were limp, didnt even come close to pulling guard. Although a few shots didnt land, a few more seconds and the would have landed and caused some serious damage. Karo should be thanking Maz.

that foo was out and anybody who says otherwise needs pull there head out there ass.. Props to the Alves, tough cat. Karo is too soft, do some crunches and cardio Karo, your too proud of yourself…

[quote comment=”401454″][quote comment=”401398″]It was a fair stoppage by Mazagatti. No question about it. If he didn’t step in when he did Thiago would have kept pounding on Karo. He was ROCKED by the knee, and might have been covering up, but with a stricker as skilled as Thiago he would have been out cold after a couple more blows. For the people who think Karo is a great fighter i disagree. I would barely put him in the top 10 in the UFC in his division. He has sloopy-ass stand up, mediocre ground game, and always looks out of shape. Yeah, he can throw anyone around the ring, but thats about it. I’m glad to see him lose. Hopefully, he’ll lose his next fight and get dropped from the UFC.[/quote]

If he would have been out cold then that’s what we should have been able to see. Then like I said earlier, we wouldn’t have to debate on if it was an earlier stoppage.[/quote]

fighter’s safety first! if all fights should end with someone “out cold” as you say than why have referees at all?

[quote comment=”401135″]Cmon, neither Mazzagatti stoppages were early. Karo is so overrated, and the fact that Thiago trained in judo takedown defense was the difference…it didn’t give Karo the opportunity to lay on him for a decision. Also Boetch looked real good against Hammil, and the 2 week notice to fight at 5500 feet wasn’t enough time to prepare him for the altitude. I judge guys by how they’d do against a champ, Hammil would get owned as well as Kenny Florian, and I’m a fan of Kenny.[/quote]

I did’nt realize he took the hammil fight on such early notice, but you’re right he was gassed very quickly, the announcer just attributed it to Hammil’s strenght… but now I think otherwise.

[quote comment=”401137″]I am of the opinion that if your standing up and suddenly your face touches your feet, your out.[/quote]
well put! Funny and true.

Poor Karo’s ego. LOL.

That is call KO.

As someone mentioned above, if Thiago would have stopped hitting Karo after the knee, there would have been no controversy. Take a look, you can see that Karo goes completely limp and its the punches that snap him out of it.

Nate was not KO’d. Although he wouldn’t of been able to stay in that crucifix-like position and take punches much longer, he was given just enough time to either get out or show he wasn’t able to.

Alexander was out, period. It sucks because I was looking forward to a nice brawl to start the night off. Irvin threw, Alexander ate it, hard. End of story.

[quote comment=”401436″]One more thing, I’ve read that a lot of people referencing eyes rolling up or rolling to the back of the head as a good indication of somebody being knocked out. I can personally witnessed knockouts where the guy’s eyes are wide open and looking straight ahead as if the person was still fully awake. Trust me, that is not a good way to measure if somebody is knocked out.[/quote]
Good call. Take Tommy Speers for instance. He was laying against the cage eyes wide open looking straight ahead like he was day dreaming and he was out cold.

[quote comment=”401222″]Come on people, every fighter should get a chance at a recovery, he should only get few sec, but everyone who gets dropped should get a chance to regroup and attempt to hold on while trying to recover. Most that go to the ground after being caught are out for a split sec, and we can’t call a fight at that point can we, se if fighter following to finish is able to land some punches the fight should be stopped for safety, but if they swing wildly and hit mostly shoulder then the fighter should get few more sec. I don’t know if Alvez was going to finish the job in the few punches that would have followed, or if Karo was going to be able to grab on and hold on till he recovered a bit more…..point being we will never know now, but we should have had a chance to see it. Houston was way different cause his arms were down not protecting himself, and the hardest punches came after the initial knock down…. big difference[/quote]

I agree, they should have let Alves hit him at least 10 more times before calling it. If I was the ref, I probably would have taken my lunch break about then.

In seriousness though I think a ref should see if a guy is going to recover before jumping in. In many cases it is a thin line though.

Good call. Karo went limp and got KO’ed. Look at his arm while he’s getting hit. It’s limp and just laying back. He wasn’t defending himself. If anything Mazz saved Karo from a serious beating, and Houston got KO’ed no question about it. Great night of fights….especially since it was free!

The one punch that flipped him onto his back was the tell tale that he was in serious danger. The knee put him out, and the punch that flipped him on his back just made it look like he was done. The last punch might have connected but Mazzi was already getting in the way stopping it. Karo wasn’t defending himself, his lifeless arms were just flopping around.

Even though I think the Karo stoppage was justified, I wonder if vets like him deserve the benefit of an extra 2 seconds or so before a ref jumps in. These guys aren’t muffins. Obviously, a ref’s job is difficult enough and waiting an extra few seconds before a certain stoppage might prove impossible - especially when the fight is broadcast live on prime time television. I doubt the athletic commissions, as well as Spike and the UFC, want any unnecessary accidents (or overkill) live on tv. Everybody has to play safe, I suppose.

fair stoppage

Thank god the ref stopped it karo would have got more brain damaged then he already is he should thank the ref for the stoppage karo got k.t.f.o! bye bye title shot!

Steve mazagati made 2 horriable calls that night the worst i think was the houston call he dropped him but no way was he out the kyro one was bad but it looked worst the way he fell but still both were bad calls he should have a review done on him

[quote comment=”401355″]HOuston was out 100%.

Karo was done too. But had a slim chance of coming out of it…

The UFC almost need 3 Side Referee’s that call something like that… Each has a button and all three buttons need to be pressed to sound a signal to the ref. This could be done with a headpiece too so the ref is aware of infractions. Hitting to the head, Low blows etc. Different tones for different calls.

This way it spreads the blame and the ref doesnt catch flak.

The officials have to evolve not just the fighters and rules.[/quote]

Comic book guy heard saying, “Dumbest comment ever.”

Well Karo, everyone knows who you are now.

Fucking bullshit!
This just shows how ‘they’ want fitch to get a shot and not karo!

[quote comment=”401240″]the heat was out
houston was out
JUSTIFIED STOPPAGES[/quote]

totally agree

houston was out, karo wasn’t. It really reminded me of guida vs huerta. karo could have grabbed alves’s body and recover, just like huerta did or himself against serra,

the real knock out is the the tommy speer kind

yeah karos body = sack of potatoes dropped to the floor
good job stevie mazz

Any of us who have played sports knows the desire to compete overrides everything else. We’ve played with sprains, concussions, broken bones etc. That’s why there’s a ref in MMA. To keep people from being seriously hurt. The fighters know this. If they don’t like that possibility, they should avoid putting themselves in the position for a ref to stop it.

[quote comment=”401107″]he was done IMO[/quote]

I think it was stopped way to early. I would have loved to seen him take about 10 more shots to his huge watermelon head.

Honestly, Mazzagatti saved his excuse making tail from getting seriously hurt. As we all could see he was delirious after the match.
And he wants a match with Fitch!!! C’mon!!

The refs don’t give a fuck who they are reffing. They don’t have an agenda. It is not a conspiracy to get Fitch a title shot. Fighter Safety…. That is it! Do yall actually want to see someone get killed.

This is a dangerous sport, keyword is sport….. our sport and in order to keep it alive we have to keep our fighters alive too.If something horrible happened after two more shots yall would be saying that they should have stopped it sooner.

You should be greatful that your boys were able to make it out of there without the aide of a stretcher

Karo was floppin around, I was a perfect stop, I it lasted any longer Karo would have had a few more shots so the head, Karo should be thanking the ref thanks to him he did not have to take 2 or 3 or 4 more punches, always quite crying

[quote comment=”401646″]Fucking bullshit!
This just shows how ‘they’ want fitch to get a shot and not karo![/quote]

HAHAHAHAHA……Cry me a river! I don’t think Karo is even crying this bad…PATHETIC!

Mommy…they’re not playing fair!

Karo was definitely in big trouble before the ref stepped in. It’s hard for me to find fault with a referee stoppage when one guy gets stunned and finds himself in a fetal position. On the other hand, we are talking about Karo and I certainly wouldn’t have been upset to see him take more of a beating.

If Karo had the balls to fight Fitch for the title shot then all you crybabies wouldn’t be on here wining today. Well then again…I’m sure some other excuse would be the subject of discussion. Karo got his ass beat down and lost just like anyone else in his place would have lost.

How about Karo “I got MAULLED” Parysan? hahaha

Next time I ever lose in something I know where to find a bucket of excuses.

[quote comment=”401709″]Any of us who have played sports knows the desire to compete overrides everything else. We’ve played with sprains, concussions, broken bones etc. That’s why there’s a ref in MMA. To keep people from being seriously hurt. The fighters know this. If they don’t like that possibility, they should avoid putting themselves in the position for a ref to stop it.[/quote]

There is a guy at my gym that rolls BJJ with his arm IN A CAST!!! True story.

Karo definitely was hurt bad, and wasn’t defending himself intelligently, I don’t know but he looked like he would have taken more damage and the ref saved him to me.

Alexander was out on the ground, getting punched.
Karo was out on his feet and falling to the mat.
By the time he hit, he was responsive and you can clearly see that he isn’t limp even while eating those weak punches.
Premature.

This kind of reminds me of chuck/rampage 2 chuck was out but come back quickly, sometimes its a hard call.

wow i dont know? i still think he could have recovered with half a second?

[quote comment=”401646″]Fucking bullshit!
This just shows how ‘they’ want fitch to get a shot and not karo![/quote]

thats bull dude dont even say stuff like that

Too early.

Then again, I was not there for the refs instructions…he could have told them: ‘look I am going to call the fight if it looks like you are in trouble and MIGHT not be able to defend yourself, I do not take chances on fighters health’.

the other guy

Mazzagatti makes bad calls often, as does Herb Dean, but I mean c’mon; that knee took him OUT.

bring on tim boetsch vs. houston alexander. would be a great fight.

mazzagatti and herb dean suck, the calls where not that bad though houston was out but karo had a chance to recover look at his fight with serra he dropped just like that and won the fight.not a real bad call but not a good one either, i have seen plenty of fights where they let it keep going next time just let him eat a couple more punches to be forsure.

Reminds me of Rampage knocking out Chuck. Chuck got knocked out, then took 3-4 more unanswered and undefended. Chuck got up and was fine, so did Karo, it was still a good call.

Just watched this on the DVR again, all the angles included. At least 2 of the 5 punches landed squarely after the knee.

the stoppage was definitely justified

Mazzagatti did a great job! I hope next time that he lets the fight go on until karo sleeps and shuts his mouth!!!

It looks like Karo should stick with judo (At least there his out of shape body is covered up). I appreciate his new strategy of trying to injure Thiago’s knee and fist on his face, but apparently that wasn’t very effective.
I think he has helped to prove the adage in his attitude towards fighting Fitch “that if you give someone enough rope they will hang them self.” (Or in his case get punished on National Television). I think his best bet in regards to beating Fitch in a competition is to play him in Basketball, Jon is probably the most horrific basketball player on the planet.

[quote comment=”401162″]It’s always hard to tell because a lot of times guys jump right up after being stopped but who’s to say if they took 1 or 2 more punches they’d be really hurt. Nate Diaz took a crazy amount of unanswered blows and his arms were trapped unable to defend and that fight didn’t get stopped. I just wish there was more consistancy in ref stoppages.[/quote]

Diaz was getting hit by a lot less power and was still squirming not just covering up taking blows…the assassin, the heat and all you saying they were early stoppages need to quit it…both guys would have been hit repeatedly until they were split then you’d be crying about not stopping it early enough…and about the whole belt thing with bjj…where are some of these guys getting their black belts??? ebay…because diaz has a brown and pelligrino has a black and pell was made to look like an amateur on the ground…

[quote post=”5650″]and about the whole belt thing with bjj…where are some of these guys getting their black belts??? ebay…because diaz has a brown and pelligrino has a black and pell was made to look like an amateur on the ground…[/quote]

Good point. Where you train is almost just as important as what belt you have. I’ve said this before, Cesar Gracie has the best BJJ for MMA. They do mostly no-gi stuff.

Both the Alexander and Karo stoppages were justified. If you look really close Karo wasn’t defending himself until after Alves landed his final punch to the armpit. And that was only because Maz pushed him off Karo. Plus Alves was moving with Karo’s body as it finally stopped flopping around after falling, had Maz given him more time he would have been in position to land more unanswered punches.

[quote comment=”401116″]Early stoppages happen…Karo and the Pitbull was a bit fast, but was a right call. Karo dropped to his ass after the knee, and fell to his back immediately. Therfore, Karo naturally covered up(cause thats what fighters do) but definately was beat. Regardless of Steve stopping the fight early, 4 maybe 5 more seconds in the fight Karo would have had a mean looking gash or two on his face…It is a great call by Steve..I’m with him 100%..[/quote]

great call buddy your dead on!!!!

i like Karo as much as anybody else,but if that would have not been stoppped, Karo’s face would have looked like grounded hamburger.it was a good stop by the ref.Karo can piss and moan all he wants.plus i won money on that fight so im happy.i lost my azz on the Houston and Lauzon fight Thaigo and Nate saved the bank. Thaigo vs GSP….yeah

[quote comment=”401238″]Good stoppage. Karo is just a whiner.[/quote]
At first glance is normal speed, looks a bit early. In slow mo replay or multiple replay normal speed, Karo went limp from the knee. He fell to the mat and was just spaghetti after that. Tuf shit Karo….see ya in 2010.

[quote comment=”401902″]Reminds me of Rampage knocking out Chuck. Chuck got knocked out, then took 3-4 more unanswered and undefended. Chuck got up and was fine, so did Karo, it was still a good call.[/quote]
Yeah Chuck flattened out, and so did Alexander…That’s all it takes. These refs are trained and are governed by the State Commission. I don’t think there’s a Richard Hazard in the UFC. I do wish they could let it go a tad more, just like the old days of UFC. That’s how Dana can promote and justify the sport as mainstream and safer than boxing. MMA is not legal in all 50 states still, NY is one I believe???

can someone explain to me why Herb Dean stood up Florian and J-Lau and didn’t put them back on the ground

[quote comment=”401902″]Reminds me of Rampage knocking out Chuck. Chuck got knocked out, then took 3-4 more unanswered and undefended. Chuck got up and was fine, so did Karo, it was still a good call.[/quote]
Of course I prefer Big John or Yves out there, even Yamasaki..he reffed Chuck vs Tito II, and did fine.

[quote comment=”401484″]Knees buckled right away and he didn’t have his hands up to block the haymakers coming at him so its the right call. He could have let Karo take more shots to the head but probably figured the guy is dumb enough already and doesn’t need any more brain damage due to head trauma so he called it.
On the bad side of it I knew instantly that since they stopped the fight before Karo was beat senseless that he would be making excuses that he wasn’t done yet. He might not have been totally done when they called the match but he would have been totally done given 5 more seconds. He was hurt and didn’t have a chance after eating the knee.
I do have one suggestion for Karo though. Jon Fitch had no problem beating Thiago Alvez so maybe Karo should come to some of Fitch’s clinics or hire him for private lessons? What do you all think? hahaha[/quote]
Fitch is a Bitch

[quote comment=”401137″]I am of the opinion that if your standing up and suddenly your face touches your feet, your out.[/quote]

Thank you. I needed that laugh.

[quote comment=”402163″]can someone explain to me why Herb Dean stood up Florian and J-Lau and didn’t put them back on the ground[/quote]
Yea I didn’t understand that either. It was like Florian got rewarded for an illegal blow.

Dumb question to ask anyway, all the Karo nut-huggers will say the stoppage was too early, and all the Alves nut-huggers will say it was a good stoppage. All I know is that Karo got DESTROYED and is not longer in title contention, and that just makes me happy, because he’s a bit of an arrogant douche-nozzle. I hope Nate saw him after he got thrashed and rubbed it in.

I had no problem with this stoppage, Karo got dropped and was out until the very last shot if you watch the clip carefully. Only then did he start to cover up, but he was still in a very bad position and Thiago would have kept raining down punches.

As I said before the fight Id laugh if karo got ko’d. bye karo see you next year maybe on the main cards.

Good stoppage.

Karo went limp like grandpas penis… good stoppage

KARO GOT ROCKED BY THE KNEE but as you can see in the last punch before it is stopped he is blocking his face with his left hand on his head, Karo definantly has the short man complex, and im happy alves made him even shorter. As for houston, what a fucking tool, i cant stand irving either but houston when your head is rolling back on the mat and neither hand is within a foot of your face, thats most likely a knock out, and i suggest you wake the f…. up

[quote comment=”402218″][quote comment=”402163″]can someone explain to me why Herb Dean stood up Florian and J-Lau and didn’t put them back on the ground[/quote]
Yea I didn’t understand that either. It was like Florian got rewarded for an illegal blow.[/quote]

good point!! in pride it was always returned to the exact same position, whats up with that

At first I thought it was an early stoppage, but the more I look at it now it looks like he was knocked out and then recovered “litteraly” when mazzagati steped in and stopped the fight.

[quote comment=”401136″]Sleep KAro Sleep! You and Houston cry each other asleep for the next few nights….[/quote]

You think a professional would know when you get owned its better to shut up, rather than make your yourself look like even more of a chump. If I get knocked out in 8 seconds, I’m going in the locker room and crying, not attempting to act like a tough guy.

[quote comment=”402166″][quote comment=”401902″]Reminds me of Rampage knocking out Chuck. Chuck got knocked out, then took 3-4 more unanswered and undefended. Chuck got up and was fine, so did Karo, it was still a good call.[/quote]
Of course I prefer Big John or Yves out there, even Yamasaki..he reffed Chuck vs Tito II, and did fine.[/quote]

houstons knock out was more like the flash knock out that chuck took and fagagotti couldnt even see karo”s face from where he was standing, i dont like karo glad he lost but definantly an early stoppage

well, he looked out, but he did spring back up. although i agree he was done, the refs should give more time so that controversial stoppages dont happen. they r fighters, let them get punched on so that there is no question about it. those punches didnt look harmful, but the knee landed flush and karo crumpled unconscious, so i agree w/ the ref.

These guys think they get a standing 8 count in MMA or something. If you want to be a kickboxer or even a boxer, get out of MMA. Once you’re dropped and you aren’t intelligently defending, it’s over. Take your pride and swallow it; you’ve lost. Everyone wants to pretend that there’s something to argue about, but there’s not. This is MMA and this is just another reason why boxing is more dangerous.

If Mazzagatti was in charge of the Diaz fight, Diaz probably would have lost when he was in the cursifix lol.

But no seriously, I think they were good stopages.
Karo crumbled, recovered, but then went limp, done!
Houston was done after the first punch landed, it was barely survival mode untill he took the second clean hit that made him go limp too I do believe. But, like people have said, you can’t see the eyes of the figher like the ref can.

Karo was using his patent DUCKING technique. Anyone that thinks he was knocked out needs to look at the tape. It was clearly evident that this was the move he was going to use to get a title shot.

Now, Mazz ruined it for him. I think he was just jealous because of the chiseled physique that Karo brought to the show. Everyones always hating on the uncrowned champion Karo. What about a Karo Steve Mazzagatti match. It could be at UFC 90 The Pacifying of A CryBaby.

Oh I know you all think Fitch should get the title shot. Everybody knows that most guys wins 8 straight in the UFC. Look at Hendo 2 straight beatings, I think he should get another shot. What kind of morons would think Jon deserves a title shot, its not like that streak has ever been matched by anyone worth mentioning in the sport. Why not give Matt Hughes another shot, after all he’s more marketable. With his literary genius, he could debunk all of the myths that the public has about MMA, who knows he could write a sequel.

[quote comment=”401135″]Cmon, neither Mazzagatti stoppages were early. Karo is so overrated, and the fact that Thiago trained in judo takedown defense was the difference…it didn’t give Karo the opportunity to lay on him for a decision. Also Boetch looked real good against Hammil, and the 2 week notice to fight at 5500 feet wasn’t enough time to prepare him for the altitude. I judge guys by how they’d do against a champ, Hammil would get owned as well as Kenny Florian, and I’m a fan of Kenny.[/quote]
Wow you are a idiot. From my standpoint on the stoppage it dont matter. No one except for the ref can make that call. The reason you are such an idiot is due to the fact is you dont know shit about any fighter it seems. Kenny fought for the title. While he was getting owned most of the fight he did Very good for the situation he was in. As for karo being overrated. The guy has been playing it safe as of late to get a title shot. And as for boetch……….your a kimbo nuthugger? Right.

There are some fighters that you have to give the benefit of the doubt. Karo is an elite fighter, and though he was hurt, he was beginning to recover and clear the cobwebs pretty quickly. Yeah fighter safety is important, but if a guy falls flat and covers up, he’s still in it. I have no doubt Karo was covering up to recover and he would have pulled guard till his head cleared.

If on the other hand you go down and your hands fall to your sides…well you’re done (Houston Alexander). Next time the ref should just let Houston get his face flattened, maybe then he’d shut his face about premature stoppages.

So in short, yeah Karo’s stoppage was early. You could tell the moment Mazzagatti jumped in Karo looked right at him and he looked all clear to me. It looks like the only decent Ref left is Herb Dean.

NEWS FLASH!!! At the Sac Kings vs Clippers game at Arco Arena, Sac, CA, its Olympics Night. Kurt Angle was present and was interviewed. He mentioned that he was fighting against Couture sometime in the fall, and was not allowed yet to mention which promotion!!!!!!!!!!!

Neither fight were poor stoppages. When you get dropped on your ass like that and go limp you better hope to God that the Ref stops it.

Lemme ask all you Mazzigatti Haters/Karo nuthuggers one thing: What the heck did you expect to continue to happen if the fight wasn’t stopped? Karo would got hit a few more times and the rest of his teeth would have been splattered on the front row seats! You really want the fans to pick up a few souvenirs?

Karo went limp when the knee hit his face, thats undeniable. He was in dire danger, he wasn’t pulling guard, he wasn’t intelligently defending himself and the end result would have been the same.

Karo and his nuthugging fanboys can argue all they want, the man is beaten, he won’t be seeing a title shot anytime soon, and he should be grateful that he still has some of his teeth.

He was out.

Regardless of whether you like/hate Karo or whether he’s a vet/noob, has nothing to do with it. There was no need for Mazz to allow an unconscious fighter to be exposed to unnecessary strikes to the head. He was out, he wasn’t defending himself, good stoppage.

karos loss is great news for DW UFC and WW division

hes an idiot who wants to sit out whining about his lost title shot

this should make him stfu and actually fight people

diaz lockerroom must of loved this loss

karo will now be forced into fighting whoever he is given

fitch KOS sanchez etc

karo isnt that big a star and if he tries to continue ducking fights he could easily just disappear from ufc
he wouldnt be a great loss

wow, i am reading a lot of people saying karo took an undefended shot to the Ear.last i check, 1 inch off, with enough force, you can hit the temple and put someone into a seizure. Mazagatti got it right. This is just the same thing that happened to liddel against rampage. he was flash KO’d. Man, i love ending threads

the stoppage was premature. how many times have we seen someone get knocked down with a punch or kick and have the fight stopped after 3-4 “unanswered blows”. just because unanswered blows looked like they have a lot of force, not all go through…and of the 4 shots alves’ landed on karo, only 1 got in but not with a lot of power. yes, karo crumbled, but he didn’t go limb. now as for alexander he crumbled and went limb. karo just crumbled. take for example, jardine/alexander. he crumbled to the 1st uppercut thrown by alexander and had probably more than 4 unanswered blows after that prior to a second uppercut. did the ref stop it there?…no, only until jardine got completely KTFO’d after like 12 more unanswered punches. it’s tough to be a ref in mma, but sometimes fighters who are close to the result of a tko stoppage need a little more time to recover.

i say give mazagatti a raise he made 2 great stops even though he knew he would get heat by sum fans…both fighters were out houston wasnt gettin up until the sandman got off of him,,and dont even get me started on that punk karo he was out

great job mazagatti keep up the good work..sum people jus wanna complain…i suppose some of u people wanna say rampage chuck was stopped too early

Don’t feel sorry for him, if he had been winning I might cry for a premature stoppage, but Pitbull did more damage to him standing up then Karo did to him on the ground, so I would have to call for Pitbull as the winner. Karo should not have let himself get into that bad of a spot, he def got knocked dizzy, weather or not he could have recovered after that doesnt matter to me, it would have only been easier for Thialgo after that.

Karo was in the moon, but it’s not unusual to see someone knock out to wake up after few punches (watch Chuck woke up after few punches from Rampage). By the way, I suspect Houston’s chin…Last two fight was quick knock out!!!

houston out! no doubt about it.

karo not at that time. yeah, maybe in about 4 or 5 more shots but there was still a slight chance for him. this is coming from some one who cant even stand his arrogant ass. the worst thing that could have happened is we would ve got to see him get hit in the face a few more times. is that actually bad?

Karo’s knee’s clearly buckled like a mofo…Where Mazzagatti was positioned all he seen was Karo drop and Thiago swingin at a dude that appeared to be finished…he had to protect the fighter….As for Houston Alexander…one hit wonder

[quote comment=”401109″]Def. PREMATURE-STOPAGE, Mazzagatti is an IDIOT!!![/quote]

i soooo agree on this ..

Mazagotti actually did Karo a favor. He was one clean shot away from darkness and Steve stopped Thiago from landing it. That means Karo will not have as long a wait as long to return to the octagon. If another punch had landed, it would be 6 months before Karo was cleared to fight and got scheduled in. He should be back in much less time.

He was out. He lost fair and square

[quote comment=”401145″]Cmon there is no debating this. He is a world class title contender and he deserves better than that. After the knee it looks like one or maybe two shots actually connected. Out of the last three shots two missed completely and the last hit him on the arm.

This is not the first time mazzastoppi has done this. He should not be anywhere near title fights or top contenders. In fact he should be canned. Or at least have his bag shaved with a dull razor so he can walk around scratching his nuts for a few weeks.[/quote]

Being a world class contender has nothing to do with crumling like a piece of feta cheese. He just fell in a position that his arms rolled up over his head. That is momentum that made him look like he was covering up and that soft little palm to face with bottom hand. I like Karo, I think he deserves a title shot regardless of this outcome. He is in the top of the food chain….

good stoppage

Hey Everybody, check out youtube for a show called T.O.P. Army Fighter coming on the Military Channel. Looks interesting, I can’t hear it at work though.Looks to be MMA style fighting.

MAYBE a bit early given the caliber of fighters but justified in my opinion. However, we’re not in the ring with these guys to see what Mazzagatti saw. Big John used to say he would only look into the eyes of the fallen fighter - when that blank stare is there….it’s over. I think Mazzagatti saw Karo dreaming of his youth in Armenia and made the right call.

Karo looked like he was one twinky away from 185… He really needs to consider 155. I dislike him as a person but his wins speak almost as loud as his mouth.

I wish the fight would have lasted a bit longer, but I wasn’t impressed with round 1, Thiago turned it on in the second and it was over. I don’t think it was a lucky shot, I think Karo should have never let Thiago stand.

[quote comment=”402713″]Don’t feel sorry for him, if he had been winning I might cry for a premature stoppage, but Pitbull did more damage to him standing up then Karo did to him on the ground, so I would have to call for Pitbull as the winner. Karo should not have let himself get into that bad of a spot, he def got knocked dizzy, weather or not he could have recovered after that doesnt matter to me, it would have only been easier for Thialgo after that.[/quote]

Watching the 2nd round, I though Tiago started to get Karo’s timing down and I knew it was a matter of time before Tiago caught Karo!

Great stoppage. Karo was cashed out!

I def. would have liked to see the fight last a little longer. But I do not think it was a pre-mature stoppage. When you stop defending yourself they will call the fight. He can get up mad if he wants, but if they woulda let it keep going he would have just got pounded more. The thing that bothers me is that these guys are professionals and they have been in the sport for a while now. They should understand and realize how it works. I’m sure if it was the other way around Karo woulda thought the stoppage was justified, its just noone likes to lose and if you have something to blame it on then why not use it.

gotta figure Mazzagati is RIGHT there…….

[quote comment=”401503″][quote comment=”401454″][quote comment=”401398″]It was a fair stoppage by Mazagatti. No question about it. If he didn’t step in when he did Thiago would have kept pounding on Karo. He was ROCKED by the knee, and might have been covering up, but with a stricker as skilled as Thiago he would have been out cold after a couple more blows. For the people who think Karo is a great fighter i disagree. I would barely put him in the top 10 in the UFC in his division. He has sloopy-ass stand up, mediocre ground game, and always looks out of shape. Yeah, he can throw anyone around the ring, but thats about it. I’m glad to see him lose. Hopefully, he’ll lose his next fight and get dropped from the UFC.[/quote]

If he would have been out cold then that’s what we should have been able to see. Then like I said earlier, we wouldn’t have to debate on if it was an earlier stoppage.[/quote]

fighter’s safety first! if all fights should end with someone “out cold” as you say than why have referees at all?[/quote]

A fight should be stopped when the fighter is not defending himself. Was Karo defending? Yes he was. He curled up, his legs were covering his mid-section, and his arms were covering his head. The fight was stopped and he popped right up. It should of went a little longer just like the main event when Florian got the mount. The ref let it go for awhile. Did the guy pop right up? No. He was done and we didn’t have to debate on whether it was an early stoppage. In the Sandman fight, Houston’s arms went limp out to the side so the ref had to jump in and stop it.

I’m glad to see Karo lose, it was a clean loss. This means that fitch gets a title shot at GSP. Not Serra. And that fight will settle the score once and for all. Even all Fitch fans knows he will lose….heck even he, himself knows he’ll lose….I’m sure Karo would beat fitch too.

If Karo is pissed he has no one to blame but himself. If you don’t want the fight stopped early don’t eat a knee to the face.

[quote comment=”403473″]I’m glad to see Karo lose, it was a clean loss. This means that fitch gets a title shot at GSP. Not Serra. And that fight will settle the score once and for all. Even all Fitch fans knows he will lose….heck even he, himself knows he’ll lose….I’m sure Karo would beat fitch too.[/quote]
My cat could beat fitch

All I know is I’m glad karo lost, it was his first stoppage and it made me smile just like gsp haters loved ufc 69, hughes, sherk, jdawg etc. God I hope gsp stops serra in the first, it would be halarious to see “rocky’s face after being smashed by the experimental machine” LOL.

I hate Karo, but the stoppage was too early - way early.
Karo needs to hit the gym or something…he has really let himself go.

Think about this..Nate Diaz looked out in his fight, bleeding and taking several punches unanswered but he came back and won by a choke. Karo I think was close to being out but most of the punches after the knee missed and he jumped up not the least bit dazed. I understand why the fight stopped but perhaps it wasn’t over. Karo deserves another big fight.

When karo fought serra he was hurt way worse and managed to come back and win a clear decision. I’m not gonna say he didn’t drop like a ton of bricks after that knee cause he did. I’m just saying that based on the other angle that was televised, it did appear that he was putting his arms up and attempting to intelligently defend himself when the ref stepped in. Tough break for Karo, but he did get caught..

[quote comment=”403608″]
Karo needs to hit the gym or something…he has really let himself go.[/quote]

Wow..I noticed that too. Karo has never been a guy with cut abs or defined muscles. But, he looked pudgey in this fight verses all the other fights I’ve seen him in. His fat was drapping off the sides of his fight shorts.

I know physique doesn’t determine the winner of fights, but, Karo didn’t look in shape.

[quote comment=”402054″][quote comment=”401162″]It’s always hard to tell because a lot of times guys jump right up after being stopped but who’s to say if they took 1 or 2 more punches they’d be really hurt. Nate Diaz took a crazy amount of unanswered blows and his arms were trapped unable to defend and that fight didn’t get stopped. I just wish there was more consistancy in ref stoppages.[/quote]

Diaz was getting hit by a lot less power and was still squirming not just covering up taking blows…the assassin, the heat and all you saying they were early stoppages need to quit it…both guys would have been hit repeatedly until they were split then you’d be crying about not stopping it early enough…and about the whole belt thing with bjj…where are some of these guys getting their black belts??? ebay…because diaz has a brown and pelligrino has a black and pell was made to look like an amateur on the ground…[/quote]

pellegrino got caught he wasn’t getting owned on the ground

awful stop. The UFC is turning into a girl sport! These guys are pro fighters and should have the chance to come back from a knock down!

Hasnt anyone ever watch fighting sports before? Part of what makes fights great is when a guy gets hurt and hangs on..then comes back and wins fights. Its shows heart and courage. Its what makes the fight game great.

These early stops are killing the sport! Another 3 or 4 punches to the head wont hurt the fighter and it gives them a chance to come back. This sport isnt for the weak!

Mazzagatti is in IMO the worst ref in the game. I wouldnt really think so if he would work in a small show. But this is currently MMA’s biggest stage and hes been responsible for waaaay too many “controversial” endings.

Karo x Alves fight was too early. From that angle its obvious it was 1 clean shot landed after the knee. It really could of gone an extra 5- 10-15 seconds depending on Karo’s reaction after that. (oh and by the way. I am not a Karo fan at all) Fair is Fair though.

The Houston Alexander stoppage was totally justified. Alexander rested his head on the mat for a second or two and was truly flash ko’d at that moment (arms stiff and all). I think Alexander (I may be wrong because I am not there) He just doesnt get hit flush in the face enough training/sparring. Seems to me he’s one of those guys whos the “big dog” at his gym and may be bullying his sparring partners. His chin is weak, Im speaking purely on fight evidence.

And it was totally classless of him to say his children hit him harder!? Does that mean, your kids drop you at home??

[quote comment=”401137″]I am of the opinion that if your standing up and suddenly your face touches your feet, your out.[/quote]
Well put. Karo didn’t trip, or fall backwards to the ground, due to momentum. He collapsed to the canvas. He was out, and he’s being a sore loser, just like Houston.

Did Karo look fat(ter) to anyone else here? I’m thinking he took this fight too lightly and came in out of shape. With that said, once his legs collapsed he didn’t intelligently defend himself, the Ref had to stop it. But I will admit the blows that Alves was trying hit Karo with were missing, I believe he hit his arm and arm pit. Good stoppage!

IMO i don’t think there’s any argument to say if he was out or not, he clearly was. but there’s been so many fights when someones been out for a split second, gained their composure back, then won the fight lol. Karo had his hands up, so like what the fuck are the ref’s going by?? like is it one of those “hmm i don’t really feel like reffing tonight, lets just make this a fast night” or “wow, i don’t like karo, lets just call this one” lol. obviously i could say the opposite of both those statements, but i’m sure you get my point. like in the end i personally just wanna see a good fight, i’m sure karo wouldn’t have really given a shit if he took a couple of shots in the face to prove that he could or couldn’t have defended himself.

karo is a dick

just rewatched this event… the nate diaz submission was awesome

as was karo getting beat

he didnt look i great shape

and to compound what a jackass he is he actually had the cheek to push randy after the fight when he went to console him

thought i saw it the first time… its right when hes tantrumming his way around the ring

didnt even apppear to shake hands with his conqueror

total lack of class

his face was so funny while they were announcing alves as the winner

on another note alves looked great and must be in the title picture now

the talk all seems to be about karo the jackass losing

but alves fought well

I was so hoping Thiago would win and I couldnt believe when he did. I love the fact that Karo is cemented as a B level fighter and not top 5 !!!! He is a candy ass crybaby

[quote comment=”403736″]

These early stops are killing the sport! Another 3 or 4 punches to the head wont hurt the fighter and it gives them a chance to come back. This sport isnt for the weak![/quote]

You are kidding right ? Another 3 or 4 blows would not kill them? Another 3 or 4 blows could be a huge difference in some cases of being a bubbling retard or just being ko’d. That has to be one of the most iggnorant things I have ever heard. Ask any Dr. what the difference in 3 or 4 punches could be. You need to watch dicovery channel. The were showing examples of high speed photograhy with Kenny Florian and Delagrotty. They were showing what happens to the body with a kick to the leg, punch to the side of the head, punch to the guy. And the amount of damage it causes with them just lightly punching is amazing. Yo know what has kept this sport so safe? The fact that guys are not given the opportunity to recover from being ko’d is why guys like Jeremy Horn is not a punch drunk idiot. 3 or 4 more punches could make all the difference in the world….

Karo got up and was safe BECAUSE it was stopped quickly, face it he was dropped and it was getting worse for him. Gsp was man enough to admit he was thankful big john came to his rescue, karo is a hot head and an ego maniac.

Gsp was also taking flush shots, karo really wasn’t he was covering up. so yeah, the damage a punch does to a person f’s them up. but their fighters, thats what they do. and……actually you know what, i really don’t care anymore lol. if Karo wasn’t such a bitch about it maybe i would. but w/e. realistically thats how it goes sometimes, not to mention i’m pretty sure he would have lost the serra fight, if the ref didn’t keep it going ( i actually don’t really remember how bad he was rocked, but i’m pretty sure serra was beating the crap out of him ). but here’s an idea instead of blaming everyone else, go back to the gym and work on your standup so you don’t get ktfo again. shit happens deal with it, or go the fuck home.

Karo was out, good stoppage ref, Karo could of gotten severely hurt if the fight continued

MMA and the athletic commissions that regulate them have rules in place so that unlike boxing fighters are not severly injured. whether veteran or not the Karo and Alexander fights were stopped when the rules suggest, when a fighter is unable to intelligably defend themselves. In the Matt Serra fight when Karo was hit, he fell into a position that allowed him to recover and defend therefore no stoppage was needed, in this case he fell to his back and recieved more shots well on the ground. If all of these early stoppage theroists wish to see somebody get beat until they recieve a brain bled or anurism, go watch boxing after dark.

In my opinion the fight was stopped at the perfect time, Karo was not defending himself intelligently and his arms did not come up till Maz was already stopping the fight.
As an MMA ref myself you have a split second to make a decission, right or wrong we have to protect the fighters, we do not have the luxury of watching a replay before making our decission, you have to go with your instincts. To Maz’s defence I believe he gave Karo time to defend himself but with the unanswered blows he took Maz had no choice but to stop the fight and protect the fighter.