he was done IMO

The knee clearly dropped him, but from where I’m sitting Thiago only landed one clean shot after that.

That, in my opinion, is the tell, tale sign of whether someone is out — whether their arms are flapping on the ground while he takes punches to the face. I would have liked more time.

Def. PREMATURE-STOPAGE, Mazzagatti is an IDIOT!!!

Well that’ll teach Karo to “duck competition” in order to get his definite title fight.
Karo “Asleep” Parisyan HAhaaa
Oh yeah, and the pitbull is a beast, he’ll be moving up sooner rather than later

Yes, I think it was a little too early. At this level you got to let a guy get finished. He took 4 unanswered blows to ear, chin,chest and shoulder only one of which looked even kind of hard.

Early stoppages happen…Karo and the Pitbull was a bit fast, but was a right call. Karo dropped to his ass after the knee, and fell to his back immediately. Therfore, Karo naturally covered up(cause thats what fighters do) but definately was beat. Regardless of Steve stopping the fight early, 4 maybe 5 more seconds in the fight Karo would have had a mean looking gash or two on his face…It is a great call by Steve..I’m with him 100%..

I thought it was premature last night , but after watching that angle , Karo was out he flopped down and was lucky his hands landed where they did. I mean Thiago didnt follow up well but at that point the damage was done.

Bull…He was out…Just like Alexander he was out for a second or two and then came back to…Great stop…He was done…Go cry on Randy’s shoulder…

Absolutely justtified. He wasn’t as out as Houston. But he can’t argue anything. Mazzagati did the right thing by stepping in when he did. If he hadn’t Thiago would have BELTED him in the face over and over and over! He’s a pitbull, he’s not going to stop until someone pulls him off.

A few more second would have only resulted on Karo looking even dumber than usual.

Cmon, neither Mazzagatti stoppages were early. Karo is so overrated, and the fact that Thiago trained in judo takedown defense was the difference…it didn’t give Karo the opportunity to lay on him for a decision. Also Boetch looked real good against Hammil, and the 2 week notice to fight at 5500 feet wasn’t enough time to prepare him for the altitude. I judge guys by how they’d do against a champ, Hammil would get owned as well as Kenny Florian, and I’m a fan of Kenny.

Sleep KAro Sleep! You and Houston cry each other asleep for the next few nights….

I am of the opinion that if your standing up and suddenly your face touches your feet, your out.

he was done, he wouldn’t have come to if alves had kept hitting him

[quote post=”5650″]I am of the opinion that if your standing up and suddenly your face touches your feet, your out.[/quote]
LMAO

Cmon there is no debating this. He is a world class title contender and he deserves better than that. After the knee it looks like one or maybe two shots actually connected. Out of the last three shots two missed completely and the last hit him on the arm.

This is not the first time mazzastoppi has done this. He should not be anywhere near title fights or top contenders. In fact he should be canned. Or at least have his bag shaved with a dull razor so he can walk around scratching his nuts for a few weeks.

hahha….. whats the word i’m looking for….. oh yea he got maulled lol

it could have gone on longer…but it would have been the same result

of course it was a good stop…Karo would of been fucked up if he had of taken one or two more clean shots..he was out!!!.
I kind of wish the ref hadnt of stopped it, I hate Karo. You had to know that if he did lose this fight for whatever reason that he would bitch about it…and say it wasn’t his fault…he always bitches and whines.

As someone said ealier…the Houston stoppage was a good one too…of course these guys are going to wake up after a second or two after getting hammered…it still means they are out, and that is when the ref should jump in. Yes HA woke up…but that was clearly after being hit 1-2 more times.

The ref is not stopping it to piss us off…he is doing it to save the fighter some serious damage. I think there would be a lot more people complaining on here if the ref had of let it go too long and either one of Karo or Houston had of been hurt a lot worse. my opinion.

I think

It’s always hard to tell because a lot of times guys jump right up after being stopped but who’s to say if they took 1 or 2 more punches they’d be really hurt. Nate Diaz took a crazy amount of unanswered blows and his arms were trapped unable to defend and that fight didn’t get stopped. I just wish there was more consistancy in ref stoppages.

[quote post=”5650″]I am of the opinion that if your standing up and suddenly your face touches your feet, your out.[/quote]

LOL…actually, his face touched his knee…then the floor. but i hear what youre saying!

I think it was a completely justified stoppage! Karo got dropped and folded up by a picture perfect knee and was taking shot after shot. While I agree that not all connected, Karo wasn’t gonna escape from that onslaught. I think the Houston / Irvin stoppage was much more questionable than this one.

When watching live I thought this fight was stopped a little early. Watching the replay I thought it may have been a little early. Watching the posted clip I am not so sure??? There is no doubt or denying he was hurt bad, but was still covering though maybe not intelligently. More fetal like. Better to err on the side of caution.

The blows on the ground woke Karo up, and ultimately played against Thiago because they made the stoppage “controversial”. Although, IMO the stoppage was excellent. Had Thiago walked away after the knee it would have been stopped right away, with Karo’s legs folded up underneath him and I believe there would have been less argument.

People need to realize this isn’t boxing, there are no counts and no recovery time. The Big Nog fight has everybody believing that guys need to be pummeled for like 45 seconds before stopping the fight.

He would have kept getting pounded in the face, and could have gotten seriously hurt… Good stoppage

I didn’t think the stop was premature so to speak, however I would have given Karo a little bit longer. Those who have been cracked before know that sometimes when you get hit your legs can just go out from under you and you can still be somewhat aware of what is going on. Given the fact that these guys train so hard and for long, I am willing to give a seasoned vet a little more time than someone who is pretty new. After Karo hit the ground, Alves 2nd, 3rd and 4th punches did not hit Karo in the face. Despite how long these refs have done this I think they get a little nervous when they see someone go down and can get a little to excited and over-react.

Justified stoppage in a lower end fight. However, I personally would have given it another couple seconds considering the caliber of fighter. Even so, I don’t believe the outcome would be different.

Theres not even an argument to be made. Karo was out. If the ref had let it go on it would have only been even worst for Karos face. Come to think about it the ref is an idiot, he should have let Thiago beat his ugly face to a bloody pulp even more

Maybe this is what Karo needed to get his ass in the gym. He looked soft and out of shape. He is one of those guys who relys on his talant. You need to put in the work if you want to be a champion. Sucks for Karo back to the bottom again.

Ptrobobly early but only by a few seconds. If he’d kept punching for another few seconds i’d have thought it would have definetly been stopped.

[quote comment=”401162″]It’s always hard to tell because a lot of times guys jump right up after being stopped but who’s to say if they took 1 or 2 more punches they’d be really hurt. Nate Diaz took a crazy amount of unanswered blows and his arms were trapped unable to defend and that fight didn’t get stopped. I just wish there was more consistancy in ref stoppages.[/quote]

I agree with you.

Come on people, every fighter should get a chance at a recovery, he should only get few sec, but everyone who gets dropped should get a chance to regroup and attempt to hold on while trying to recover. Most that go to the ground after being caught are out for a split sec, and we can’t call a fight at that point can we, se if fighter following to finish is able to land some punches the fight should be stopped for safety, but if they swing wildly and hit mostly shoulder then the fighter should get few more sec. I don’t know if Alvez was going to finish the job in the few punches that would have followed, or if Karo was going to be able to grab on and hold on till he recovered a bit more…..point being we will never know now, but we should have had a chance to see it. Houston was way different cause his arms were down not protecting himself, and the hardest punches came after the initial knock down…. big difference

It was a very premature stoppage. I agree with Jase. The refs need to be more consistant. He saw a punch thrown while karo was on the ground….it hit his bicept. I do like that new young guy. Look at the Matt Hamill fight. Thats how you need to stop fights. This isn’t boxing.

[quote comment=”401205″]Justified stoppage in a lower end fight. However, I personally would have given it another couple seconds considering the caliber of fighter. Even so, I don’t believe the outcome would be different.[/quote]

I agree. Karo is a UFC veteran. He should have had another 2-3 seconds. I don’t think he was in great risk of injury if another 2 punches landed. Result may have been the same but it wouldn’t be contested then. Thiago clearly figured out he was ducking his head too much.

I am a little torn between it being a tad bit too early or justified…

I like to compare these incidents to the Nog/Herring 3 near KO of Nog….

I see the difference in the way they fell, Karo seemed to go totally limp, where as Nog kind of fell down, rolled on his back, BUT, rolled back into balance and put his arms up, Karo’s arms don’t seem to be actively moving or trying to thwart Alves punches…

* Houston was OUT…

[quote comment=”401111″]Well that’ll teach Karo to “duck competition” in order to get his definite title fight.
Karo “Asleep” Parisyan HAhaaa
Oh yeah, and the pitbull is a beast, he’ll be moving up sooner rather than later[/quote]

Did you listen to him after the fight…..He doesnt want another good fighter

Good stoppage. Karo is just a whiner.

the heat was out
houston was out
JUSTIFIED STOPPAGES

You can clearly see his knees buckle after that knee to the face. Same as the Houston fight, i think the ref should let it go a few seconds longer, letting Karo get his face smashed in a little more so that he won’t have anymore lame excuses.

karos arms fell into a position to absorb some of those blows he didnt put them there to defend himself.

Horrible call! Houston’s call can be justified, but this one clearly shows it was premature.

I’ve wqtched this like 20-30 times now and I believe it was maybe one or two tenths of a second early, but the fight was over, regardless. There’s no way Karo wouldn’t have been totally KO’d if Maz had waited even half a second.

I was happy to see Karo get dropped. Clearly that knee had a big impact. Look at Karo’s body heave upward from the impact, my best guess is that Karo was unconcious before he hit the ground then was pounded back awake by a couple of blows from Thiago.In my opinion it was a good stoppage.

I think Karo was out, he probably could have recovered but maybe not..mazzagatti did the right thing by stepping in but if i was the ref i would have let Karo take a couple more blows before callin it a night…at the same time i feel like these refs are trying to protect the image of the sport more than anything..it was a live event on national TV, i feel like they didnt want anything to brutal to happen bc it would leave room for mma haters to make a big deal out of.

IMO he would have taken alot more damage if Mazz didn’t step in. Even Rogan thought it was a fair stoppage, and he only took his head out of Karo’s ass for a second to see that.

Who thinks that was too early?? Get a CLUE!!! He was sitting on the mat UNCONCIOUS! Maz saved him from getting carried out on a stretcher and that’s what he’s supposed to do. Karo’s Good/Karo’s Bad is besides the point, he got caught with a massive knee that KO’d him. As good as they are, Randy, Chuck, Rich, Matt Hughes, GSP etc etc have all been KO’d.

[quote comment=”401230″][quote comment=”401111″]Well that’ll teach Karo to “duck competition” in order to get his definite title fight.
Karo “Asleep” Parisyan HAhaaa
Oh yeah, and the pitbull is a beast, he’ll be moving up sooner rather than later[/quote]

Did you listen to him after the fight…..He doesnt want another good fighter[/quote]

What did he say?

It was a good stoppage, they were out, if he let them go longer it was unnecessary, just more punishment.

I think it was a good call. He was rocked and went to the fetal position, which his coahc Randy even says isnt a intelligent defense…Its kind of a catch 22…Karo is a savvy veteren who has never been knocked out, so most refs would give him a chance to recooperate, however, there are about 2 or 3 Welterwights that the ref can absolutely not let tee off on a half unconscious dude, and Alves is definately one of them, same with Marcus Davis just too much power to let them do that…its a sport, and on national tv, the fight was over, so it was a good stoppage…all of them last night were good stoppages..

Dude karo is a dirty persian he was out then wined like a little kid after it.

A little early imo, but I don’t blame Mazz for stopping it. Karo got rocked and the chances of him recovering were slime to none.

I wish all referees would let the fight go on a little longer just to silence most of the haters, but that wouldn’t be fair for the person that is losing. When you fight you should avoid being in the position where the ref will stop the fight, it’s out of your hands and karo wasn’t really doing anything to avoid the blows. good stoppage.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? It’s a BAD STOPPAGE!

Karo Vs Matt Serra- Karo walks into a HUGE right and gets dropped in the same manner and comes back and wins the fight!

Karo Vs Diego Sanchez- Karo eats an upper cut and gets dropped in the first round that was also an eye poke. He was eating HUGE unanswered blows as Diego smelled blood. He came back and that fight could have gone both ways.

Karo is much like Forrest Griffin in many of his fights, he needs to get beaten up or dropped for him to get angry and come back and fight/win.

How could you not give a seasoned vet 2 more seconds to recover?

EARLY STOPPAGE! Mazaggati blows.

It was an early stoppage. The following punches didn’t really land cleanly.

The result might have been the same had they let it continue, but why let there be doubt?

Karo is a top competitor, and a warrior IMO.

At least let the guy get a chance to be KO’ed so there’d be no excuses.

Protecting the fighters should only go so far. Karo’s reputation and title shot were on the line…LET IT HAVE A DECISIVE ENDING!

i wanted thiago to knock him out so that karo wouldnt talk crap afterwards

Appeared to be an early stoppage. While Karo definately got rocked by the knee he still covered up and Thiago only land the first shot clean, the three latter shots didnt land anywhere. Mazaggati has just shown too much of a history of stopping fights too early, look at the last fight wit florian and louzan, kenny had the mount and was landing soo many shots but joe was defending himself and herb dean waiting until he stopped defending himself and didnt respond to his warnings of stopping the fight before actually stopping it. I get the whole fighter safety thing but one or two more extra shots isnt going to cripple a guy, come on!!! Still doesnt excuse Karo as he looked out of shape and most likely didnt take this fight that seriously, as evidence by his trash talking of Fitch before this fight. He’ll be lucky to get on the ppv main card now after this fight.

when karo got up he didnt seem to be hurt but when u see the knee to the head karo’s knees buckled he was clearly out cold…..if even for a second he was diffently out cold ..his knee would not of buckled if he was not out cold…..It was a good call,

I thought anyways!!

solid knee, 2 semihard punches landed, 2 missed punches…. a few more would have put him to sleep. looks bad. outcome would’ve been the same either way.

the knee did drop him but he was still defending himself and not in a “locked” position a la florian-lauzon.

Its one thing to stop a fight when the fighter is on the ground and goes limp, his eyes go in the back of his head or he is just unable to defend himself. you can clearly see that neither of these happened to Karo. he wasnt totally knocked out and should have been allowed to continue. But being that he’s facing someone like Thiago i think the fight would have ended soon enough b/c of thago’s striking ability. still doesnt excuse mazzagoti for getting this one wrong!!!

Comparing this stoppage to the non-stoppage when Heath Herring dropped Big Nog, I’d have to change my original opinion that it was a good stoppage. Maybe it wasn’t. Herring did almost the same thing, though, in all fairness, Big Nog never went limp like a rag doll. He bounced back in less than half a second. Like Big John said in Fight magazine, when you understand the game inside and out, and you know the fighters, that slows that action down tremendously so that the refs can make good calls… even if they don’t look like good calls at first.

HOuston was out 100%.

Karo was done too. But had a slim chance of coming out of it…

The UFC almost need 3 Side Referee’s that call something like that… Each has a button and all three buttons need to be pressed to sound a signal to the ref. This could be done with a headpiece too so the ref is aware of infractions. Hitting to the head, Low blows etc. Different tones for different calls.

This way it spreads the blame and the ref doesnt catch flak.

The officials have to evolve not just the fighters and rules.

[quote comment=”401169″]I think it was a completely justified stoppage! Karo got dropped and folded up by a picture perfect knee and was taking shot after shot. While I agree that not all connected, Karo wasn’t gonna escape from that onslaught. I think the Houston / Irvin stoppage was much more questionable than this one.[/quote]
It’s really hard to tell. With Karo, I think even if Mazz let it go on longer it would have ended the same. Both Houston and Karo were seriously hurt and borderline conscious. To me it looked like Houston could have gotten back in it if they had let it go on longer.

[quote comment=”401313″]I wish all referees would let the fight go on a little longer just to silence most of the haters, but that wouldn’t be fair for the person that is losing. When you fight you should avoid being in the position where the ref will stop the fight, it’s out of your hands and karo wasn’t really doing anything to avoid the blows. good stoppage.[/quote]

GOOD STOPPAGE!! 1st of all we cant even really see Karo’s eyes. when the eyes roll in the back of the head…FIGHT OVER!!!
Karo’s legs went limp and he crumbled, then Tiago threw some shots 1 landed and Karo’s body went limp for a second but thats all it takes. It was a flash Knockout so the fight was over, the fact that Karo then recovered means nothing because that is the definition of a “flash KO”.

Anyone who will argue with any of the stoppages last night is delusional.

Jesse: Watching round 2 of the fight, I thought that Tiago was getting Karo’s timing down and it would just be a matter of time before he took Karo out, and then BANG!!! I thought he was out, how did you interpret it?

I remember that after Irvin’s fight with Hector Ramirez, he clocked Ramirez and KO’d him, then turned around cause he knew Ramirez was out but the ref didn’t know yet. When the ref didn’t stop it Irvin went in for a few more strikes till the ref realized what happened. So I don’t know, I think Irvin has goos instincts for when he hurts someone. And he says he hurt Houston pretty bad, so. I still think it was a little early.

I wonder who’s going to get KO of the night? I love when there’s so many good fights that it’s hard to choose. You have to look at the quality of the fighter that gets KO’d. I might have to give it to James Irvin, just cause it was so fast. Anthony Johnson also had a damn good punch land on Speers.

[quote comment=”401240″]the heat was out
houston was out
JUSTIFIED STOPPAGES[/quote]
100% agreed!

too soon. karo had his hands up. i am not a karo fan. nuff said.

just look at the gif, mazzagatti was right there, Karo’s eyes were probably rolled back…great stoppage. Karo is way overrated

It was a fair stoppage by Mazagatti. No question about it. If he didn’t step in when he did Thiago would have kept pounding on Karo. He was ROCKED by the knee, and might have been covering up, but with a stricker as skilled as Thiago he would have been out cold after a couple more blows. For the people who think Karo is a great fighter i disagree. I would barely put him in the top 10 in the UFC in his division. He has sloopy-ass stand up, mediocre ground game, and always looks out of shape. Yeah, he can throw anyone around the ring, but thats about it. I’m glad to see him lose. Hopefully, he’ll lose his next fight and get dropped from the UFC.

From my view, it seems the consensus is that 2 more seconds would’ve been great, but they probably wouldn’t have changed the outcome, it would’ve just change the popular opinion.

[quote comment=”401108″]The knee clearly dropped him, but from where I’m sitting Thiago only landed one clean shot after that.

That, in my opinion, is the tell, tale sign of whether someone is out — whether their arms are flapping on the ground while he takes punches to the face. I would have liked more time.[/quote]

Precisely. Karo was possibly in line for a title fight. You don’t end a fight early when there is that much on the line.

Good Stoppage by the ref. Karo should consider himself lucky that the knee he ate didn’t knock another tooth out. I posted this on another thread, but does anyone else think Karo was more than a little flabby? He jiggled while he moved and had an f ing pooch over his shorts. A drop to 155 (and he could do it, he’d just have to up his cardio) would make him an immediate title threat to whoever has it at the time.

If mazzagatti was the judge for big nog vs heath herring, Herring would have won.

[quote comment=”401411″]If mazzagatti was the judge for big nog vs heath herring, Herring would have won.[/quote]

Then fatty tim sylvia would be our heavyweight champ

Maybe Mazz would’ve let the fight go on longer had Karo not looked like a beached whale.

Karo seriously needs to lay off the Krispy Kreme.

[quote comment=”401348″]Comparing this stoppage to the non-stoppage when Heath Herring dropped Big Nog, I’d have to change my original opinion that it was a good stoppage. Maybe it wasn’t. Herring did almost the same thing, though, in all fairness, Big Nog never went limp like a rag doll. He bounced back in less than half a second. Like Big John said in Fight magazine, when you understand the game inside and out, and you know the fighters, that slows that action down tremendously so that the refs can make good calls… even if they don’t look like good calls at first.[/quote]

That’s a good point about knowing the fighters. Didn’t Mazz say in an interview after the Mir/Lesnar fight that he doesn’t try to learn about the fighters in his matches?

i woulda waited a few more seconds… he was hittin karos arm for cryin out loud

[quote comment=”401137″]I am of the opinion that if your standing up and suddenly your face touches your feet, your out.[/quote]
lmao, good point

Karo was done. Maz made the right call. Just look at Karo’s arms flapping like a flag in the wind. Legs limp. He was out.

Alves did what is called “lazy finish” where he just tried to throw some punches from a standing position. Nobody would have argued if Alves would have mounted Karo and rained down elbows but regardless both results would have been a loss for Karo. Except the latter would yield much more damage on Karo, maybe permanent.

One more thing, I’ve read that a lot of people referencing eyes rolling up or rolling to the back of the head as a good indication of somebody being knocked out. I can personally witnessed knockouts where the guy’s eyes are wide open and looking straight ahead as if the person was still fully awake. Trust me, that is not a good way to measure if somebody is knocked out.

[quote comment=”401423″][quote comment=”401348″]Comparing this stoppage to the non-stoppage when Heath Herring dropped Big Nog, I’d have to change my original opinion that it was a good stoppage. Maybe it wasn’t. Herring did almost the same thing, though, in all fairness, Big Nog never went limp like a rag doll. He bounced back in less than half a second. Like Big John said in Fight magazine, when you understand the game inside and out, and you know the fighters, that slows that action down tremendously so that the refs can make good calls… even if they don’t look like good calls at first.[/quote]

That’s a good point about knowing the fighters. Didn’t Mazz say in an interview after the Mir/Lesnar fight that he doesn’t try to learn about the fighters in his matches?[/quote]

I believe he did say that.

YEA HE HIT HIS UNDERARM AFTER THE KNEE AND 4 OTHER FISTS TO THE FACE, KARO IS A WHINNY BIT#%, HE GOT KTFO… GREAT STOPAGE, I WOULD BE SAYING IT WAS GREAT EVEN IF IT WAS A FIGHTER I LIKED TOO…

[quote comment=”401315″]ARE YOU KIDDING ME? It’s a BAD STOPPAGE!

Karo Vs Matt Serra- Karo walks into a HUGE right and gets dropped in the same manner and comes back and wins the fight!

Karo Vs Diego Sanchez- Karo eats an upper cut and gets dropped in the first round that was also an eye poke. He was eating HUGE unanswered blows as Diego smelled blood. He came back and that fight could have gone both ways.

Karo is much like Forrest Griffin in many of his fights, he needs to get beaten up or dropped for him to get angry and come back and fight/win.

How could you not give a seasoned vet 2 more seconds to recover?

EARLY STOPPAGE! Mazaggati blows.[/quote]

i agree, if it where nog in there they would not have stopped it.

First of all I’m not a Karo fan although you can’t denie he is a great fighter. I think the fight was stopped to soon. If he would have been out his hands would have fell to the side (like Houston’s hands did for a split second). He simply covered up like any fighter does when they get knocked on their butt. These are top UFC fighters not fighters on The Ultimate Fighter. When this much is on the line, let the fight get finished for sure. Then we wouldn’t have to debate whether it was an early stoppage or not. Bottom line he was still protecting himself, he didn’t tap, and the fight should have continued.

the houston stopage i completely agree with, but after seeing karo getting dropped by sera I think mazagatti should have let him take one or two more punches, karos tough but he was seriously rocked but not out. Who knows maybe the next one or two would have put him to sleep for good