Comments on: A Critics/Fans guide to UFCs The Ultimate Fighter (TUF) 7 http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/ UFC news, event schedules, fight analysis, Octagon predictions, UFC fighters and MMA thoughts Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:37:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: UFC middleweight division: The thick and thin at UFC blog for UFC news, results, videos, rumors, fights, pics and tickets — MMAmania.com http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-329322 UFC middleweight division: The thick and thin at UFC blog for UFC news, results, videos, rumors, fights, pics and tickets — MMAmania.com Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:11:00 +0000 http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-329322 [...] Some argue that it is the UFC's thinnest division; heck, I've even argued this as recently as Wednesday. That said, the division is growing. [...] […] Some argue that it is the UFC’s thinnest division; heck, I’ve even argued this as recently as Wednesday. That said, the division is growing. […]

]]> By: DoctorSamson http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-323208 DoctorSamson Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:34:56 +0000 http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-323208 So I don't normally get surprised with anything said on these threads, because there are just so many people with differing views, but I really am surprised that some people don't think forrest deserves a title shot, at least as much as several others in the division. There may not be a top contender, but he dominated shogun, he got caught against jardine, and in my opinion won a close fight with tito, who has gotten 2 title shots in recent history. I definitely think he is deserving, more so than chuck or machida, you can make a case for jardine, and I think they are pretty even as far as deserving a shot, and in that case you just pick one and the other one gets the next shot provided he doesn't lose. I mean they both suffered devastating knockouts and both beat top fighters. How do you choose? You could say jardine because he knocked out forrest, but you could say forrest because he beat the top fighter he fought much more decisively than jardine beat his. It's half way one dozen or the other, but in any case he is deserving. So I don’t normally get surprised with anything said on these threads, because there are just so many people with differing views, but I really am surprised that some people don’t think forrest deserves a title shot, at least as much as several others in the division. There may not be a top contender, but he dominated shogun, he got caught against jardine, and in my opinion won a close fight with tito, who has gotten 2 title shots in recent history. I definitely think he is deserving, more so than chuck or machida, you can make a case for jardine, and I think they are pretty even as far as deserving a shot, and in that case you just pick one and the other one gets the next shot provided he doesn’t lose. I mean they both suffered devastating knockouts and both beat top fighters. How do you choose? You could say jardine because he knocked out forrest, but you could say forrest because he beat the top fighter he fought much more decisively than jardine beat his. It’s half way one dozen or the other, but in any case he is deserving.

]]> By: Flaadog http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322885 Flaadog Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:02:26 +0000 http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322885 Roger. Roger.

]]> By: wagnerav http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322715 wagnerav Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:00:02 +0000 http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322715 [quote comment="322578"][quote comment="322577"]"Still others point to TUF 2's Rashad Evans, who eeked out mostly decision wins over sub-Top 10 fighters (Jason Lambert excluded) before his competition increased with the likes of Tito Ortiz." Adam, don't forget about Rashad's devastating knockout of Sean Salmon.[/quote] Not that Salmon was a top 10 fighter, but....[/quote] Flaadog, I agree, it was a great KO of Salmon, and likely the most exciting conclusion of any Evans fight. I wasn't trying to say that I necessarily agree with either Criticism #1 or Criticism #2; just pointing out that these criticisms do exist. [quote comment=”322578″][quote comment=”322577″]”Still others point to TUF 2’s Rashad Evans, who eeked out mostly decision wins over sub-Top 10 fighters (Jason Lambert excluded) before his competition increased with the likes of Tito Ortiz.”

Adam, don’t forget about Rashad’s devastating knockout of Sean Salmon.[/quote]

Not that Salmon was a top 10 fighter, but….[/quote]

Flaadog,

I agree, it was a great KO of Salmon, and likely the most exciting conclusion of any Evans fight. I wasn’t trying to say that I necessarily agree with either Criticism #1 or Criticism #2; just pointing out that these criticisms do exist.

]]> By: Flaadog http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322578 Flaadog Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:24:10 +0000 http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322578 [quote comment="322577"]"Still others point to TUF 2's Rashad Evans, who eeked out mostly decision wins over sub-Top 10 fighters (Jason Lambert excluded) before his competition increased with the likes of Tito Ortiz." Adam, don't forget about Rashad's devastating knockout of Sean Salmon.[/quote] Not that Salmon was a top 10 fighter, but.... [quote comment=”322577″]”Still others point to TUF 2’s Rashad Evans, who eeked out mostly decision wins over sub-Top 10 fighters (Jason Lambert excluded) before his competition increased with the likes of Tito Ortiz.”

Adam, don’t forget about Rashad’s devastating knockout of Sean Salmon.[/quote]

Not that Salmon was a top 10 fighter, but….

]]> By: Flaadog http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322577 Flaadog Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:22:34 +0000 http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322577 "Still others point to TUF 2's Rashad Evans, who eeked out mostly decision wins over sub-Top 10 fighters (Jason Lambert excluded) before his competition increased with the likes of Tito Ortiz." Adam, don't forget about Rashad's devastating knockout of Sean Salmon. “Still others point to TUF 2’s Rashad Evans, who eeked out mostly decision wins over sub-Top 10 fighters (Jason Lambert excluded) before his competition increased with the likes of Tito Ortiz.”

Adam, don’t forget about Rashad’s devastating knockout of Sean Salmon.

]]> By: Jack McManus http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322537 Jack McManus Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:45:44 +0000 http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322537 People are definitely too hard on the guys from TUF. Everyone treats them like they've gotten something handed to them, which isn't the case at all. This show is smart in so many ways, both business wise and talent wise. The one thing I disagree with is holding up divisions because the champion is a coach on the show. In my opinion, the show would be just as entertaining if the coaches were Bonnar and Griffin or other non-champion contenders. People are definitely too hard on the guys from TUF. Everyone treats them like they’ve gotten something handed to them, which isn’t the case at all. This show is smart in so many ways, both business wise and talent wise. The one thing I disagree with is holding up divisions because the champion is a coach on the show. In my opinion, the show would be just as entertaining if the coaches were Bonnar and Griffin or other non-champion contenders.

]]> By: ViolentMike http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322500 ViolentMike Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:54:56 +0000 http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322500 [quote post="5044"]Who else in the LHW division deserves that title shot more than Forrest? [/quote] Machida, Keith Jardine, and Thiago Silva. NONE of which are marketable. Therefore, Forrest gets the title shot. [quote post="5044"]Mark my words, Bisping is and will continue to be a contender. [/quote] Bisping may contend to make the Top 5 of the MW division, but he will never hold the belt in my opinion. Anderson Silva and Dan Henderson are both on another planet when compared to Bisping. By the time those two are old and retired, there will be some new WELL ROUNDED fighter in the division that would hold the belt. With all of the new additions to the MW division and considering that Bisping is fighting Charles McCarthy, even with a win, Bisping would be lucky to be ranked #10 in the division. [quote post=”5044″]Who else in the LHW division deserves that title shot more than Forrest? [/quote]

Machida, Keith Jardine, and Thiago Silva. NONE of which are marketable. Therefore, Forrest gets the title shot.

[quote post=”5044″]Mark my words, Bisping is and will continue to be a contender. [/quote]

Bisping may contend to make the Top 5 of the MW division, but he will never hold the belt in my opinion. Anderson Silva and Dan Henderson are both on another planet when compared to Bisping. By the time those two are old and retired, there will be some new WELL ROUNDED fighter in the division that would hold the belt.

With all of the new additions to the MW division and considering that Bisping is fighting Charles McCarthy, even with a win, Bisping would be lucky to be ranked #10 in the division.

]]> By: ViolentMike http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322496 ViolentMike Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:48:09 +0000 http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322496 [quote comment="321928"]Neither Forrest or Rampage are doing to want to bring this fight to the ground. I give Forrest the win. He has something about him that not many fighters bring. Rampage is awesome too. Should be fireworks. Does anybody know any spoilers for this season?[/quote] If they did, and they posted them on this site, and the comment didn't get moderated, they would shortly find out that they somehow got a computer virus on thier computer... Why would you want to know what happens before watching the show? What fun is that? You probably don't order the PPV's in that case and are just used to knowing who wins before actually watching it. Quick Question: If you're a football fan, do you record the super bowl, and then turn on the tv and watch Sportscenter to find out who won the game, and then watch the super bowl? I don't understand why someone would want to know the outcome before watching, it makes zero sense. Unless they just want to be that a$$hole that ruins it for everyone else. Some people that were neglected as children often like to ruin things for others... [quote comment=”321928″]Neither Forrest or Rampage are doing to want to bring this fight to the ground. I give Forrest the win. He has something about him that not many fighters bring. Rampage is awesome too. Should be fireworks. Does anybody know any spoilers for this season?[/quote]

If they did, and they posted them on this site, and the comment didn’t get moderated, they would shortly find out that they somehow got a computer virus on thier computer…

Why would you want to know what happens before watching the show? What fun is that? You probably don’t order the PPV’s in that case and are just used to knowing who wins before actually watching it. Quick Question: If you’re a football fan, do you record the super bowl, and then turn on the tv and watch Sportscenter to find out who won the game, and then watch the super bowl? I don’t understand why someone would want to know the outcome before watching, it makes zero sense. Unless they just want to be that a$$hole that ruins it for everyone else. Some people that were neglected as children often like to ruin things for others…

]]> By: Mike http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322451 Mike Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:03:04 +0000 http://mmamania.com/2008/02/20/a-criticsfans-guide-to-ufcs-the-ultimate-fighter-tuf-7/#comment-322451 [quote comment="321597"]And you can use Bisping as a case in point for the favortism arguement. The guy is a can. Now he's talking about having good enough skills to beat Anderson Silva. He got whooped by Hammill and anyone that saw that fight knows it. He couldn't even finish Sinosic in the 1st round.[/quote] RIDICULOUS. Yes, I believe Hamill won that fight. Yes, Bisping has been spoonfed many opponants. But Bisping's weakest area has always been his wrestling, and he at the very least put some of that doubt (of being able to fight a wrestler successfully) to rest with those last two fights. Bisping shows a solid gas tank, a good BJJ game, and a strong ability to get back to his feet. While I do think that Bisping lost both fights to Hamill and Rashad, he by no means looked bad doing it, especially considering how much smaller he is than Hamill. Rashad is a Top 10 Fighter, no matter what those dumb rankings say. Replace Arona with Rashad. Arona hasn't done anything in 2 years and you can't hang on to a Top 10 ranking with a 1-1 record over the past 2 years, not while guys like Rashad are going 5-0, over fighters like Bisping and Lambert. People trash Hamill all of the time-at least up to his Bisping fight-but I've been beside him from the start. Ortiz saw something in him and had the experience of training with him to back up his opinion that Hamill would one day be a Champion. I saw it too, not in his TUF fight, but in his other fights where he was being fed "cans" (if you consider a NCAA National Champion a "can"). In the Bisping fight I saw more of the same from Hamill. He's got great wrestling, hits hard, and can take a shot. He applies constant pressure and shows no fear. He is also very strong. Despite facing two guys who's strengths are his weakness, and two guys who are really really good fighters, despite being smaller, Bisping held his own and walked out of the ring with little more than a scratch. To call him a joke is a joke. To call him a can is absurd. Mark my words, Bisping is and will continue to be a contender. [quote comment=”321597″]And you can use Bisping as a case in point for the favortism arguement. The guy is a can. Now he’s talking about having good enough skills to beat Anderson Silva. He got whooped by Hammill and anyone that saw that fight knows it. He couldn’t even finish Sinosic in the 1st round.[/quote]

RIDICULOUS.

Yes, I believe Hamill won that fight. Yes, Bisping has been spoonfed many opponants. But Bisping’s weakest area has always been his wrestling, and he at the very least put some of that doubt (of being able to fight a wrestler successfully) to rest with those last two fights. Bisping shows a solid gas tank, a good BJJ game, and a strong ability to get back to his feet.

While I do think that Bisping lost both fights to Hamill and Rashad, he by no means looked bad doing it, especially considering how much smaller he is than Hamill.

Rashad is a Top 10 Fighter, no matter what those dumb rankings say. Replace Arona with Rashad. Arona hasn’t done anything in 2 years and you can’t hang on to a Top 10 ranking with a 1-1 record over the past 2 years, not while guys like Rashad are going 5-0, over fighters like Bisping and Lambert.

People trash Hamill all of the time-at least up to his Bisping fight-but I’ve been beside him from the start. Ortiz saw something in him and had the experience of training with him to back up his opinion that Hamill would one day be a Champion. I saw it too, not in his TUF fight, but in his other fights where he was being fed “cans” (if you consider a NCAA National Champion a “can”). In the Bisping fight I saw more of the same from Hamill. He’s got great wrestling, hits hard, and can take a shot. He applies constant pressure and shows no fear. He is also very strong.

Despite facing two guys who’s strengths are his weakness, and two guys who are really really good fighters, despite being smaller, Bisping held his own and walked out of the ring with little more than a scratch. To call him a joke is a joke. To call him a can is absurd.

Mark my words, Bisping is and will continue to be a contender.

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