The stage was set tonight for former UFC light heavyweight champion Chuck Liddell to rebound from his loss to Quinton “Rampage” Jackson and get back on the winning track for an eventual showdown with Wanderlei Silva before 2007 expires.
Enter the spoiler: Keith Jardine.
“The Dean of Mean” chopped down the “Iceman” with stinging kicks to the ribs to gut out a hard-fought three-round split-decision win. In fact, Jardine even dropped Liddell in round two with a crushing right hand.
It’s hardly what most fans — and the UFC brass — expected from the future Hall of Famer.
Jardine, however, clearly won the bout, frustrating Liddell with an awkward style for which he seemed to have no answer. Liddell could simply not land his devastating overhand right with precision.
That’s what happens perhaps when a “kickboxer” gets out kickboxed and is able to be gameplanned for effectively. Liddell has come to rely way too much on that devastating overhand right.
For what it’s worth, Liddell did not look that bad. Jardine was just up for the challenge. Chuck should still fight Wanderlei on New Year’s Eve because fans want to see it. And it might be the last time the UFC can bank on one of its most bankable stars who is on the wrong side of 30.
There were a lot of folks who picked Forrest Griffin to spoil the anticipated debut of Mauricio “Shogun” Rua (ahem, myself included). However, did anyone think he would submit the Brazilian star?
Not even pick maestro Randy Couture could have scripted that one (even though he did pick the Griffin upset).
Griffin is as unpredictable as the outcome of this fight. He’s a gamer who fights to the level of his competition. For now on don’t put this guy in the cage with anyone outside the top five in the division — it’s not worth it.
Win or lose Griffin puts on a show when he’s put to the test. So does Houston Alexander … hmmm. Then again, I’m not sure Houston is top five. Tough call.
So how about our boy Jon Fitch? Hate to say I told you so, but Fitch delivered. I’m not buying the split-decision even though Cecil Peoples called this one right — Fitch dominated that fight despite some great submission attempts from Diego Sanchez.
“Nightmare” looked good on the ground … but who is he? He trained with professional boxer Oscar De La Hoya in his loss to Josh Koscheck. Then he switched camps to train with Brazilian grappling sensation Saul Riberio for this fight.
He was a boxer against Koscheck and a jiu-jitsu guy against Fitch. Somewhere along the line Sanchez lost his identity. He needs to put it all together come fight time … and if he does watch out.
Diego will be back.
But now what for Fitch? The welterweight division is loaded with talent but seems to be an absolute trainwreck in terms of future matchmaking. Without a doubt Joe Silva will have some sleepless nights sorting it all out.
Not to be outdone Tyson Griffin and Thiago Tavares put on a SHOW. What a great technical battle. Griffin is becoming very adept at earning tough decisions.
It’s going to catch up with him sooner or later, however. Granted, the guy fights top dogs, but he has to finish a fight in convincing fashion to get to the number one contender level, no?
All in all this was a FANTASTIC night of fights. In terms if “LIVE blogging” we’ve never had it so hard — the action was frenetic and insane as advertised.
UFC 76 is going to be a hard one to top in the next few months … unless, of course, Rich Franklin can pull off yet another upset at UFC 77.
I can’t wait to find out because nothing can surprise me at this point in mixed martial arts.
184 Comments »
chud is done,he didn,t look that good but i do believe the silva fight will happen in december..holy crap forrest looked really good he can give rampage some work and they were being very nice to give diego any love….. yes he will be back!!!
Wanted to see Diego and Liddell win but by now im use to seeing my favs lose lol. I hope diego rounds out his game or does whatever he has to do to bring the diff aspects together. Yeah i also picked Griffen to put on a good show against Rua but was surprised to hear he won by RNC. Look foward to seeing Liddell and Wandy. Overall sounds like a decent event although would have been nice to hear Machida win by other means than decision but he’s got the goods not doubt in that. Good coverage and recap Mania and all involved.
How bout that KEITH JARDINE!!! It’s time for folks to jump off of the Iceman’s washed up wagon!!
I wouldn’t consider Lidell washed up despite what people may say. The only fights he has lost recently are getting caught on the button by Rampage who is the world champion, and this decision. You can’t say Jardine whipped his ass, Lidell just couldn’t land any of his vicious stikes. Jardine was well prepared, and fought a great fight.
SHOGUN was gased for some reason! I don’t know why! What the hell going on with Pride fighters? Rampage is the only excpetion so far. will see how Henderson does and Wand. But damn this is nuts! I want to see Fedor in the cage and see what happens with him! If he loses the cage is a cursed or just different from the ring which it is true but I don’t know? I want answers!!!!
Sad to say, Chuck is beginning to show he is very one dimensional… and people are starting to cat on…
What kind of repercussions does the Forrest-Shogun fight have? The legendary Pride fighters are beginning to look not so legendary.
with this loss i think liddell vs wanderlei wont happen until sometime next year, chuck has to get some wins under him before he gets that fight. wanderlei was mad in the crowd lol. Diego looked good in his fight against Fitch, hopefully “the nightmare” will get back to his winning ways. My question is what the hell happened to Rua, he was tired by the end of round 1??
Yeah Chuck is very one dimensional. It was going to catch up with him sooner or later!
Dana White might fire Mike Goldberg now. The Liddell/Wanderlei fight could still happen, with both coming off of 2 straight losses. But Goldberg kept saying all night “if Liddell can beat Jardine”, “if Liddell can beat Jardine”, now they would just look dumb to go ahead with the fight.
Chuck won that fight no questions asked. Come on people, admit it.
Ok seriously, someone has to say it. Chuck is just a boxer, Jardine looks like a goblin when he fights/horrible balance, Rua gassed out!?, and diego/fitch should have been a draw.
Come on chuck this is MMA not boxing. If you can’t knock a guy out, try something else. Geez!
what a waste of money this event was.
Thank you UFC 76 for a horrible weekened!
I still want to know why Shogun was gased by the 2nd round. He was!!!!!! thats what made the difference! Why be gased in your first UFC fight??? Even though you’re in Pride before
FINALLY!!! now all my friends know who i am talkin about when i say jon fitch is a bad ass. And quick question MANIA, is fitch always that emotionless after a victory?lol. just another day at the office for him i guess
It doesnt matter if he didnt gas. He was good in the first round and Forrest easily won that one.
Yeah. He did gas, it was obvious. Wait til he releases a statement. Shogun absolutely gassed. I called forest as the underdog, I knew he could frustrate shogun. Forrest is a big 205, much bigger than shogun.
I don’t think these Pride guys have faced tough competition. I mean, yeah they are all tough fighterrs. . .
BUT now were talking more than fighting skill, were talking about training and strength. Forrest trains hard for cardio and is juiced up with legal supplements. He is a true professional athlete. Rua is just a damn good fighter. If this were a playstation game and you could turn off fatigue then the UFC fighters would lose everytime.
BUT this isn’t.
So the Americans who are training SUPER hard on cardio and diet are going to beat these guys 8 times out of 10 until they realize this is the real deal. It’s not pride anymore, where you might face a guy who just broke his nose and you both are exhausted. Now both guys come in fresh and the better cardio will win everytime. Sorry Pride, I’m not impressed.
Cro Cop — lost 2 in a row.
Shogun — could lose 2 in a row if he faces another top 5 contender.
These guys were made out to be gods. Even hendo got whacked on day 1.
THE UFC is for real now. Forrest is for real. You can’t just walk in a get a lay down fight at this weight class anymore, every 205 matchup no longer has a heavy favorite.
so who is next for a light heavy weight title shot??
Silva?
Forest?
Jardine?
Alexander?
The winner of evans/ortiz 2?
I say Jardine fights Forest for a title shot.
why are people saying that chuck wont get the fight in december against wanderlai silva, they both have two back to back losses and were both at one point in time very dominant champions. i just dont get it, makes perfect sense to have them fight but whatever.
SOO happy fitch won, when i trained at aka he was really cool, i was just a noob white belt, but he actually came over and helped me with my armbar technique, just a great person.
Just got back from the fights. It was called “Knock Out” but UFC should have called it “BORING” Not one knock out ALL NIGHT LONG!
HOLY HELL WAR FORREST! I wanted Forrest to winand had a nagging gut feeling…but Comeon now, SHogun I figured would just bring too much, WRONG! Shogun looked confused and sort of slow…Forrest didn’t win..HE DOMINATED! Seriously Shogun didnt do one thing but break scar tissue with an elbow.
WAR Tyson Griffin! He’s a young bad man!
Machida is good and dangerous, just not really a dangerous finisher which really sucks for him…he should get Tito or Rashad though, he needs more seasoning.
AS for Finch, Im glad that he beat Dirty Sanchez, but I still think the new GSP is too much for him, Kos, Hughes, and Serra if they ever rematch.
Chuck looked fit physically, his beer gut was dimensioned, and he looked in shape, he just has become too un-agressive and one dimensional. He’s my second fave fighter after GSP, but he’s on the wrong side of 30 and like Cro Cop, he doesn’t seem able to incorporate new wrinkles to his game. He should still get Wandy, because we’ve waited so long! and it could be aptly billed “Last Stand” cause both guys are 0-2 and on the down.
[quote comment=”156333″]so who is next for a light heavy weight title shot??
Silva?
Forest?
Jardine?
Alexander?
The winner of evans/ortiz 2?
I say Jardine fights Forest for a title shot.[/quote]
Why would Jardine fight Forrest again after brutally KO’ing him?
Evans and Ortiz are no longer top tier, and neither of them have beat marquee names recently to earn the title shot. Tito will probably never get another title shot.
I say either Houston or Jardine against Wandy, and the winner gets Rampage. I don’t want to see Chuck versus Wandy anymore.
Jardine should probably be first in line before Houston for Wandy (even though Houston killed him) if only because he has beaten two very famous and well-regarded fighters in Chuck and Forrest. Then again a Houston v. Wandy fight would be really entertaining.
The first thing that hit me watching Rua vs. Griffin was their size difference. Shogun looked so much smaller than Forrest. It was strange because Sho looked bigger in Pride. Man, it was weird to watch Shogun tap.
What the hell is going on with that damned cage? I guess we’ll have to see how well Wanderlei does when he steps back in there. Hopefully it’ll be better than when he got highlight-reel KO-ed by Vitor.
Did anyone else notice GSP’s eyes after Fitch’s dominant win? I think St. Pierre now realizes all too clearly that their paths are on a collision course, and didn’t seem too happy about it. Man, that Fitch can fucking fight. I didn’t realize how big he was until I saw him in the octagon with Diego. He is a huge WW.
I also have to say, I was really annoyed by Nakamura’s haircut. That Japanese schoolgirl-do looked ridiculous. No comment on the fucking pink umbrella.
yea it was a great night of fights…i say put Liddell vs. Alexander and Griffen vs. Wanderlei and Jardine vs. Rua…cuz none of these guys deserve a title shot yet…we also have to remember that in Pride steroids were allowed therefore mainly all of them used it for training, im not saying Shogun did but it seemed to me that he might have because he was gassed in the middle of the 2nd which in Pride is only the first round and he got a 1min rest after 5 min in this fight…i say put Jon Fitch vs Koscheck or Parysian or someone up in the top 10 and then give him a title shot..how about Fitch vs. Swick???
Regarding Pride transitions, they’re all great. However the best so far has to be Hendo and Rampage withoutta doubt. Cro Cop is a bust, and it is evident (and sad to say) CC will never dominate the cage. Shogun deserves another chance.
Big Nog didn’t look all that good, Heath Herring is a joke, we’ll see about Wandy. And I’d put my life on Randy destroying (Thats right, destroying) Fedor when he gets to the UFC.
This ufc as brought a few things to my attention..
1. where the hell was lesner?
2. fedor??
3. pride
pride fedor
new rankings
1. ramp
2. hendo
3. houstan
4. jardine
5. chuck
6. machida
7. tito
8. forest
9. sho
10. silva
Jardine Vs Silva
Houston Vs Machida
Forrest vs Rampage
Forrest beat the so-called #1 at 205 he earned it.
It’s the training. Forrest trained and was so jammed for this fight. Shogun wasn’t. I think he believed his hype and thought that his skill would beat the grit. Good for Forrest. He just worked harder, was in way better shape, and let all the hype play to his advantage. I was routing for Shogun, but I’m not entirely surprised at the upset.
I just rewatched the Forrest Vs Shogun fight and my god, Shogun looked like an amateur, completely out of gas in the 2nd round, that is not the Pride FC Shogun, that was another man, jesus what a humiliation. It makes me think though of the claims Juanito and Rampage made about him using steroids in Pride. In Pride he looked lean and fit, in the UFC he looks like a flabby kid. If Rampage fought him today, He would murder Shogun. Griffin Vs Rampage for the title! and it’s gonna be Juanito’s plan Vs Couture’s Plan! It would be a sick chance for Xtreme Couture to hold both the Light HW and HW belts. We’ll see.
Jardine Vs Silva
Houston Vs Machida
Forrest vs Rampage
Forrest beat the so-called #1 at 205 he earned it
YES! i love this match up.. machida will win againts houston.. and wanda will destroy jardine.
[quote comment=”156376″]pride fedor
new rankings
1. ramp
2. hendo
3. houstan
4. jardine
5. chuck
6. machida
7. tito
8. forest
9. sho
10. silva[/quote]
Your list is whack man! Tito doesn’t even belong, and no way SHogun gets dropped to 9 from one loss, and Forest only at 8. Wandy is too low and Machida is too high.
1. Rampage (now that Shogun took a big fall, and Wandy is seemingly on the down…Rampages is lookin good by offing Chuck and just being a smidge better(youth) than Hendo)
2. Hendo (Hendo was Soo close with Rampage and would beat the below with his extraordinary skillset)
3. Houston (hardest to rank a mysterious newcome so high bases on beating Sakara and Jardine too otherwise ordinary names, but he looked EXPLOSIVE and murdered the guy(Jardine) that just got by Chuck, however narrow, a win is a win for Jardine over Chuck Jardine soundly shalacked Forrest)
4. Jardine (soundly thumped Forrest and squeeked by Chuck, 2 big names, and however lack luster he is, oddly here he sits…Needs to get put the stamp on Forrest or rematch Alexander cause Rampage will kill him for real!)
5. Forrest( Forrest can’t climb higher cause of Jardine defeat and this being his only real breakthrough win..but whatta HUGE WIN!)
6. Shogun (Would be #1 had he beaten Forrest, or #3 at latest becuase Hendo is that effing good…and Rampage has to be one due to holding the belt…BUT he lost badly, therefore 3-5 can claim a higher spot with they’re triangle of MMA math)
7. Chuck (Favorite fighter, but being honest…devastating loss to Rampage & now Keith Jardine!!? Not knocking Jardine, but he squeeked out out barely cause Chuck has lost any intelligence he once had and become too one dimensional, but unlike CC you know he’s still got the passion)
8.Wandy (since when did losses to a “prime” & larger Crocop and the great Hendo knock you so far down? Plus 2 big wins over Rampage and some on Hendo)can still beat Jardine and guys like Tito, Rashad, etc)
9. Machida..begrudgingly…skilled guy, boring by nature, at least trying, no real test yet, Rich Franklin was a middle weight) He should get Alexander, Jardine, or Forrest.
10. Sokoudjou (yet to enter UFC but wins on Nog and Arona are better than Tito’s ordinaryness and gatekeeper role)
[quote comment=”156382″]Jardine Vs Silva
Houston Vs Machida
Forrest vs Rampage
Forrest beat the so-called #1 at 205 he earned it.[/quote]
I approve of this.
[quote comment=”156434″][quote comment=”156382″]Jardine Vs Silva
Houston Vs Machida
Forrest vs Rampage
Forrest beat the so-called #1 at 205 he earned it.[/quote]
I approve of this.[/quote]
Yes, I too am down with this.
well about chuck..its really parallel to crocop’s situation..too predictable..fighters are evolving and training for fights and breaking down opponents weaknesses and formulating fight strategies;these are the keys to success in about 7 out of 10 fights…
chuck, aside from his age,has a lot of things going against him..he needs to reinvent himsleft or end up like randleman,coleman, or shamrock who were all left behind by the bus called progress..
fitch was a beast..did you see the stare down..diego look like a light weight compared to the larger fitch…kudos for fitch for escaping from diego’s sick submission..
i knew forrest would win..but definitely note via submission..well i dont think bring over priced and over hyped pride fighters are worth the fuzz..
mabuhay ang mga pinoy!!!!
i think machida should get a title shot, even though most of his fights are boring as fuck, haven’t seen the one last night though
diego won that fight do u guys not understand that? ya fitch is a better wrestler. and ya he was ontop of diego for big parts. but diego was trying submission after submission. he almost finished fitch plenty of times. fitch NEVER had diego even close to being in trouble. give me a ab reak. diego won that fight. rounds 1 and 3 were diegos. fuck*n bullsit
thought diego won! and lets not forget anderson silva is a pride vet. hell ov a night 4 mma. perhaps the best!
[quote comment=”156440″][quote comment=”156434″][quote comment=”156382″]Jardine Vs Silva
Houston Vs Machida
Forrest vs Rampage
Forrest beat the so-called #1 at 205 he earned it.[/quote]
I approve of this.[/quote]
Yes, I too am down with this.[/quote]
we should all agree to this!
Evan though there were no ko’s those were some awesome fights last night
best total fight card of the year if not ever!
I say Jardine exposed alot of holes in Liddells game, After last night he did look one dimensional, Jardine did good.
Griffen should fight Rampage next, he looked awesome last night and ready for a title shot.
Fitch too should get a title shot, bullshit split decision should have been unanimous, Fitch all the way
Machida tried to Finish nak, Naks a hard gut to finish. we also saw Machida try to be more aggressive, he looked a little gassed butt i say give him a harder fight he deserves it.
[quote comment=”156278″]SHOGUN was gased for some reason! I don’t know why! What the hell going on with Pride fighters? Rampage is the only excpetion so far. will see how Henderson does and Wand. But damn this is nuts! I want to see Fedor in the cage and see what happens with him! If he loses the cage is a cursed or just different from the ring which it is true but I don’t know? I want answers!!!![/quote]
You forgot about Anderson Silva, he was a Pride guy….
Shogun looked as horrible as his brother did last week against Robbie Lawler. I really hope that was all first fight adrenaline that gassed him. Wandy Silva is going to have to represent big time, considering he has the most cage experience for Chute Boxe. Shogun did not even come out like he normally fashion. If it was a roids rage thing then damn it showed. I think with out the the ability to cut off the ring he has a lot of cage work to come. He is going ot have to reinvent his startegy. Silva already has the expreince in cutting off the cage so he should be able to have a much smoother transition to UFC then many of he other pride fighters.
As far as Forrest fight Rampage I do not think they are even in the same league. With the excepetion on Shogun he really has nothing on his resume other then a near win against Tito. Do not get me wrong Forrest is a great competitor and always makes for an exciting fight, standup guy, real personable, but e is not a champion, imo. In the past what beat Rampage was the fast paced Muay Thai that Chute Boxe brings and the only one that I see right now with that kinda style(hard knees, fast aggressive pace, ounches from awkward angles, and durable chin) is Housotn Alexander. Think of the way he has come out his last 2 fights. Explosive and overwhelmingly! I think he may be the only one in the class to give Rampage a real fight. Jardine would get out wrestled by him. Machida can not finish these B level fighters no way is he going to finish Rampage. Bisping is a joke at 205 and I almost wish that they would give him a title shot in London so Rampage could knock the smugness off of his new found friend. Hammill has a long way to go still before he can consider that level of fight. Rampage has proven he has Chucks number. He beat Hendo who has the tightest wrestling in that weight class. So the only real 2 options for Rampage is Alexander and pssibly Wandy Silva depending how he looks getting back to the cage, oh I forgot one other possibilty, Ross “the peoples champ” Pointon finally gets the respect he deserves and get his title shot.
Here is an interesting scenario for the 170 class. GSP beat Kos, Kos beat Diego, Serra defends belt against Hughes. GSP gets winner. KOS is still on top of the food chain, but now so is Fitch. So I wonder when will and with great possibilty, does KOS vs. Fitch happen? That has got to come in to play at some point with the both of them being in the top of the class. I mean who else after Hughes and GSP is there: Karo, Kos, Fitch, and Diego. That is top tier of that class. So I am really hoping Fitch and Kos will have to fight and that fitch would hand Kos his Arse!
[quote comment=”156305″]It doesnt matter if he didnt gas. He was good in the first round and Forrest easily won that one.[/quote]
I totally agree. Some fans are saying “he gassed, that’s why he lost” as if to say he would have won otherwise.
Uh… he didn’t gas from just standing in the octagon, he gassed because he was fighting someone who nullified pretty much everything he tried to do! Both guys are well know for pushing an incredible pace… Forrest simply had the edge in strength and wrestling skill and he wore Shogun down.
Anyhow, another GREAT night of fights. I “predicted” Jardine would wear Liddell down with leg kicks. Anyone could see that coming from a mile away. It’s a shame Liddell didn’t have an answer other than to throw his overhand right, as you’re all saying.
[quote comment=”156362″]yea it was a great night of fights…i say put Liddell vs. Alexander and Griffen vs. Wanderlei and Jardine vs. Rua…cuz none of these guys deserve a title shot yet…[/quote]
I like the sound of that…if this happends in December. It’ll be TUF vs. ChuteBox!
Chuck Liddell is the new Tito Ortiz.
I saw it last night, Chuck had no heart.
Chuck Liddell, is the most famous face, he is doing movies, tv shows, music videos making alot of public apperences, but what he is not doing is training extenisivly.
Liddell has everything, but does he still have that drive that made him a champion?
I say no.
Did you all see Wanderlei, he was extremely pissed, but you could not feel that bad, with Jason Mayhem Miller in the back smiling and appearing in every Wanderlei shot.
Lyoto Machida looked incredible like always. He hit Nakamura with some heavy shots, and I think that the Liddell/Jardine match got booed more than Machida/Nakamura.
Nakamura, is not cut for the UFC. It would be nice to see a Karo/Nakamura fight to witness Judo, but the difference between those two are is that Karo is a well rounded fighter, Nakamura is not.
Fitch/Sanchez- very entertaining, Deigo was very very very agressive on his back attempting submission over and over and over. Fitch showed that he is the top 4 of the Welterweight division. Fitch is the most complete fighter in that division. He can wrestle, strike, submit, and has incredible defense.
Forrest/Shogun- I was cheering hard for Forrest because I predicted him to win, but did I do that via submission… uh. NO! I do not think one person said Forrest would make Shogun tap out, if they said they did.. they are lying. I thought Forrest would knock out Shogun in Round 1. But a round 3 submission…. WOW!!! Forrest is one tough cookie. I loved his speech saying he got depressed and ate alot of cookies. Shogun looked awful. I knew cage fright would get to him. People say that Chute Boxe trains hard in a cage, well they did not train hard enough. Shogun got scared. I think Shogun still has everything for him considering he is only 25, but I think with this division he needs to get back on his high horse.
GRIFFIN/THIAGO- What a great opener. This fight could be a fight of the year candidate. These two fighters deserve to be in the octagon. Griffin is one heck of a fighter. Thiago is an incredible fighter. This fight was amazing.
Liddell/Jardine- Jardine’s style threw Chuck off horribly. I do believe that Chuck Liddell has lost his drive, because Jardine left himself open multiple times and Chuck just stood back. Was Chuck scared to get Knocked Out? I honestly think that Chuck was scared and has lost his drive. Jardine won that fight fair and square I think he dominated in every aspect.
Is Liddell done?
This card is so hard to top, but when you got Rich/Silva, Vera/Slyvia… and of course I will be there.. IT is shaping up to be awesome. Less than 1 month!
NC -17,
Enjoyed reading your breakdown.
I was left thinking, after the Lidell fight, that he could adapt some of Jardine’s tactics and be a better fighter. I agree that he has lost some of his drive. I still dont think that chuck was in adequate shape for this fight. His stomach is still distended leading me to believe that he is not doing enough core training. I think if chuck throws some more kicks that he has some more miles if he wants it.
The Griffin/Thiago fight - Instant Classic. The level of fighting has been raised. Get on board or get your but kicked.
Almost too much to digest in one night - what a great night!
Peace
[quote comment=”156424″]Jardine Vs Silva
Houston Vs Machida
Forrest vs Rampage
Forrest beat the so-called #1 at 205 he earned it
YES! i love this match up.. machida will win againts houston.. and wanda will destroy jardine.[/quote]
Those are great match-ups.
[quote comment=”156278″]SHOGUN was gased for some reason! I don’t know why! What the hell going on with Pride fighters? Rampage is the only excpetion so far. will see how Henderson does and Wand. But damn this is nuts! I want to see Fedor in the cage and see what happens with him! If he loses the cage is a cursed or just different from the ring which it is true but I don’t know? I want answers!!!![/quote]
Yeah, what the hell did happen to Shogun? The guys is used to fighting a 10 minute first round, but he gets gassed in the middle of the second 5 minute round? My housemate and I think that maybe the steroid testing that the UFC does may have something to do with it. The Pride guys just look small and out of shape when they fight over here. Shogun looked like he needs to work out a little more.
AFTER SEEIN FORREST LAST NIGHT I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED AT ALL IF HE BEATS RAMPAGE ASSUMING HE GETS A TITLE SHOT. AS FAR AS JARDINE/GRIFFIN GOES I THINK IF THEY FOUGHT AGAIN FORREST WOULD WIN NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM KEITH HE IS A HELL OF A FIGHTER. I THINK EVERY1 SEES THAT TUF FIGHTERS ARE FOR REAL ITS REALLY FUNNY, LAST WEEK I WAS READING HOW TUF FIGHTERS WERENT THAT GOOD AND SHOGUN WAS GONNA PROVE THAT..I BELIEVE THAT JARDINE AND FORREST ARE TOP 5 CONTENDERS!!
DAMN!!! I can’t believe I had to miss this PPV!!! Good for Forest scoring one for the UFC. Ive always had the opinion that Pride is not better than UFC, instead I believe that both organizations produced very exceptional fighters. I never thought Jardine would take Liddel!! I thought I was reading this wrong. Wow, I really missed out.
I think some of these pride fighters are just buying into their own hype that Pride is better than the UFC. I still believe Shogun is top 3, every fighter has a bad day. Hopefully he will adjust his training and come back better. Otherwise we may see him end up like CC, who will likely retire with a mediocre record in the UFC.
[quote comment=”156602″]Was Chuck scared to get Knocked Out? I honestly think that Chuck was scared and has lost his drive.[/quote]
Did you see his left side? It was a huge bruise/welt! I can only imagine what his left thigh looked like. He got beat up!
Was he scared of getting knocked out? Maybe… but he was also physically hurting. Don’t get me wrong, I like to see fighter put it all “on the line” but they are human.
I guess what I’m saying is that we saw they same Liddell we always see… but as someone else said, he wasn’t facing a grappler with weak stand-up, he was facing a fellow striker who is just as unorthodox as he is. It was a great fight, both guys brought it, but Jardine did more. Chuck simply relies too much on his overhand right.
Well Well Well has anybody else noticed the absence of our beloved “pride fighters are the best fighters in the universe” Fans? I do remember all those long days spent reading blogs on why shogun is the top lhw in the world and there is NOBODY that can beat him……(pause for pride fans to think up excuses). Goes to show doesn’t matter who you are or what organization you came from or how crazy your fans are theres no one who is unbeatable or so much better then another fighter anymore.
Stupid TUF 6. Being the most stacked division and prolonging the bout for Serra and Hughes leaves a lot of contenders waiting for the ladder.
[quote comment=”156602″]Chuck Liddell is the new Tito Ortiz.
I saw it last night, Chuck had no heart.
Chuck Liddell, is the most famous face, he is doing movies, tv shows, music videos making alot of public apperences, but what he is not doing is training extenisivly.
Liddell has everything, but does he still have that drive that made him a champion?
I say no.
Did you all see Wanderlei, he was extremely pissed, but you could not feel that bad, with Jason Mayhem Miller in the back smiling and appearing in every Wanderlei shot.
Lyoto Machida looked incredible like always. He hit Nakamura with some heavy shots, and I think that the Liddell/Jardine match got booed more than Machida/Nakamura.
Nakamura, is not cut for the UFC. It would be nice to see a Karo/Nakamura fight to witness Judo, but the difference between those two are is that Karo is a well rounded fighter, Nakamura is not.
Fitch/Sanchez- very entertaining, Deigo was very very very agressive on his back attempting submission over and over and over. Fitch showed that he is the top 4 of the Welterweight division. Fitch is the most complete fighter in that division. He can wrestle, strike, submit, and has incredible defense.
Forrest/Shogun- I was cheering hard for Forrest because I predicted him to win, but did I do that via submission… uh. NO! I do not think one person said Forrest would make Shogun tap out, if they said they did.. they are lying. I thought Forrest would knock out Shogun in Round 1. But a round 3 submission…. WOW!!! Forrest is one tough cookie. I loved his speech saying he got depressed and ate alot of cookies. Shogun looked awful. I knew cage fright would get to him. People say that Chute Boxe trains hard in a cage, well they did not train hard enough. Shogun got scared. I think Shogun still has everything for him considering he is only 25, but I think with this division he needs to get back on his high horse.
GRIFFIN/THIAGO- What a great opener. This fight could be a fight of the year candidate. These two fighters deserve to be in the octagon. Griffin is one heck of a fighter. Thiago is an incredible fighter. This fight was amazing.
Liddell/Jardine- Jardine’s style threw Chuck off horribly. I do believe that Chuck Liddell has lost his drive, because Jardine left himself open multiple times and Chuck just stood back. Was Chuck scared to get Knocked Out? I honestly think that Chuck was scared and has lost his drive. Jardine won that fight fair and square I think he dominated in every aspect.
Is Liddell done?
This card is so hard to top, but when you got Rich/Silva, Vera/Slyvia… and of course I will be there.. IT is shaping up to be awesome. Less than 1 month![/quote]
excellent analysis all around. I couldn’t agree more.
[quote comment=”156294″]I still want to know why Shogun was gased by the 2nd round. He was!!!!!! thats what made the difference! Why be gased in your first UFC fight??? Even though you’re in Pride before[/quote]
TitoG, I was thinking about all this too and to me, something just isn’t right in this equation. Pride guys like Shogun are coming from 10 minute rounds and he could barely stand after 3 minutes. Much respect for Forrest to bring it strong, he was great, but there has to be more to it than this. Neither of these two guys are my favorite so I’m calling it right down the middle here. Shogun was lacking that aggression that he had in Pride. I wouldn’t doubt it that Wanderlei will come into the Octagon and lack that famous aggression too.
I’m going to throw this one out there, but given Pride doesn’t test, a couple of these dudes must have shot something to give them that drive and aggression, not necessarily roids (although it may have been) but a shot of something that the UFC bans that provides that bolt of aggression, of intensity. Take a look at Cro Cop’s aggression and intensity in the UFC, look in Pride, see the difference? Just one year ago, OWGP champion, now yawning in the cage. If you put a censor on Shogun’s face during that fight, and didn’t know he was fighting, would you have thought that was Shogun?
Yes, Anderson Silva was a pride guy and so was Rampage, but I there is something up with a couple of the guys that goes beyond training and mental attitude.
Perhaps the face stomping and soccer kicks rule created that intensity…knowing that they are allowed to stomp or kick goals with someones head as the ball provided that extra boost and intensity?
TitoG, I’m just as confused and perplexed as you are dude.
Not impressed by Chuck at all, he should have tried to mix it up a bit but have we ever seen chuck do anything other than strike?
Chuck-will retire to party like a rock star.
I think a Silva vs Alexander would be a great fight.
Hats off to Forest. Nothing like a humble say it like it is guy.
[quote comment=”156502″]diego won that fight do u guys not understand that? ya fitch is a better wrestler. and ya he was ontop of diego for big parts. but diego was trying submission after submission. he almost finished fitch plenty of times. fitch NEVER had diego even close to being in trouble. give me a ab reak. diego won that fight. rounds 1 and 3 were diegos. fuck*n bullsit[/quote]
Truthfullly, that fight was so razor close that either guy could have won the decision and deserved it. It was a helluva scrap no matter who your fave is & both deserve respect for putting on such a great show. They’re both winners in my eyes.
I’ve always thought Diego was over-hyped & that he won what in my opinion was his biggest fight against Karo by simply having more gas. Dont let the knee that knocked out Karo’s tooth fool ya, had the 2 had equal gas tanks, Karo would have won that fight. However, after his performance against Fitch last night, I have all the respect in the world for Diego as a fighter but I still hafta pass on his personality.
Shogun was not himself. What was up with him going for the leg the whole fight. Where was the Shogun that dominated people in the clinch. He looked tired after the first round and he was looking like a little girl in there. Shogun is my favortie fighter but if keeps on fighting like this, I will stop watching his fights. Wanderlei better not do the same thing. Even though I hate Forrest for beating my favorite fighter he did earn it so let him fight Rampage.
Here is my analysis:
Shogun looked really bad! He must have been on steroids before, because he looked really out of shape. Shogun is not a cage fighter- he is a ring fighter. You have to be really strong in the cage because you are pushing/ or being pushed towards the cage which takes power and energy. The ring takes more finesse and the Pride rules are set up for a more freestyle fighter.
If the UFC guys all had to come over to Pride and fight in the ring with Pride rules you would have the same effect. Could you imagine Randy not being able to push an opponent up against a cage- he would of lost to Gonzaga. There are few guys who are Cage and ring fighters Rampage, A Silva, and Hendo are both. Forrest Griffin in the ring he would get out finessed any day of the year. The cage takes grit and raw strength like Rampage and Couture have. The ring takes finesse like Shogun and CC have. Shogun will do well if he is smart and adapts he has age on his side, so he can still turn things around. Oh yeah and Chuck Liddell I always knew he was overrated.
Peace
[quote comment=”156634″]Well Well Well has anybody else noticed the absence of our beloved “pride fighters are the best fighters in the universe” Fans? I do remember all those long days spent reading blogs on why shogun is the top lhw in the world and there is NOBODY that can beat him……(pause for pride fans to think up excuses). Goes to show doesn’t matter who you are or what organization you came from or how crazy your fans are theres no one who is unbeatable or so much better then another fighter anymore.[/quote]
CREEKS: I’ll admit, I had to eat some “humble pie” on Cro Cop & now on Shogun. Despite that, I was 110% right about Rampage & Anderson Silva!!
The main problem that Cro Cop & Shogun have are that they no longer have the much smaller ring to stalk & corner their opponents in. This isnt an excuse but rather a hurdle.
A prime example of the opposite would be when Chuck fought Rampage in PRIDE. You could see Chuck struggle with getting caught in the corners & not having the same range of motion in the smaller space. I dont bring this up to excuse that loss (I’ve always preached that Chuck was over-rated) but rather to point out the significant difference between fighting in a ring or in a cage.
It can’t possibly be easy for a fighter who’s used to doing things 1 way for so many years to suddenly have to pull a “180″ & expect to be equally effective.
I think we learned most recently from the Forrest vs Shogun fight that a fighter no longer wins on skill alone. If that fight didnt wake up MMA fighters as whole to the fact that you MUST train your body & mind to be prepared for all aspects of the game then nothing ever will. Those who refuse to believe it will get brutally replaced by those who do.
Any Pride “mystique” is done now. Shogun was exposed. Gassed in the second round when he was used to fighting 10 minute opening rounds in Pride. I guess when you take his ‘roids away he falls apart? That was disappointing.
Forrest really proved something to me last night too, I won’t rip him anymore thats for sure. Pride “superstars” just can’t hang with the UFC boys apparently. I stand corrected. Now just get Fedor over here so Randy can whip him and it will be over.
Like I said, anything can happen and anyone can lose at anytime. I wouldn’t have picked jardine of griffin to win but I wouldn’t put money on any fights in the light heavy weight division. Its unpredictable anymore, even Randy picked chuck to win and he is never wrong. The only for sure thing is every fight is up for grabs. The only fighter I would bet on right now is Anderson Silva and thats because he looked impressive in every aspect of the game(standing, submissions, the clinch,) what can’t he do? Look for Rich Franklin to be destroyed again! As for who deserves a shot at Rampage I can’t call it. If Wand wins in december give him a shot. Forrest may have beat Rua but I think he needs another big win and so does Jardine. I agree with Wand and Alexander lockin em up in December and the winner gets Rampage. I think that will be a hell of a fight.
[quote comment=”156382″]Jardine Vs Silva
Houston Vs Machida
Forrest vs Rampage
Forrest beat the so-called #1 at 205 he earned it.[/quote]
Those are perfect match-ups. I agree 100%.
[quote comment=”156707″]Like I said, anything can happen and anyone can lose at anytime. I wouldn’t have picked jardine of griffin to win but I wouldn’t put money on any fights in the light heavy weight division. Its unpredictable anymore, even Randy picked chuck to win and he is never wrong. The only for sure thing is every fight is up for grabs. The only fighter I would bet on right now is Anderson Silva and thats because he looked impressive in every aspect of the game(standing, submissions, the clinch,) what can’t he do? Look for Rich Franklin to be destroyed again! As for who deserves a shot at Rampage I can’t call it. If Wand wins in december give him a shot. Forrest may have beat Rua but I think he needs another big win and so does Jardine. I agree with Wand and Alexander lockin em up in December and the winner gets Rampage. I think that will be a hell of a fight.[/quote]
Griffin and Jardine need more big wins? Who else do both guys need to beat? Does it get bigger than beating Liddell and Rua to get a title shot?
Griffen/Tavares-This fight became very technical from the start, and we all know who one of the most technical guys are in the LW div…..Tyson Griffen. It was no surprise he won this fight via UD.
[quote comment=”156502″]diego won that fight do u guys not understand that? ya fitch is a better wrestler. and ya he was ontop of diego for big parts. but diego was trying submission after submission. he almost finished fitch plenty of times. fitch NEVER had diego even close to being in trouble. give me a ab reak. diego won that fight. rounds 1 and 3 were diegos. fuck*n bullsit[/quote]
So If attempting a submission is better than pounding your opponent then that would change the way people fight? I could fight in the UFC, attempt tons of submissions while getting pounded. Fitch landed a ton of punches from dominant positions. Was never in trouble from any of the submission attempts. A submission ‘attempt’ in my opinion is worthless unless it leads to a submission.
[quote comment=”156535″]
You forgot about Anderson Silva, he was a Pride guy….[/quote]
I pointed this out before, that while Anderson Silva did fight in Pride, he fought in Cage the Rage for about 16 months before coming to the UFC. So he knew more what to expect in the cage then other fighters who came directly from pride (by came directly from pride I mean guys whos last figth was in pride and next fight was in the UFC.)
Rampage is the only one to fight his last fight in pride, come to the UFC and win, and didn’t even do it well over Eastman.
All I have to say is way to go Forrest. I picked all of them correctly except I picked Chuck over Keith.
Machida/Nakamura- This fight sucked as does all of Machida’s fights. He was a lot stronger than Nakamura,m dominated the whole fight and still couldnt finish him. I thought that to be sad. Nakamura really didnt seem to stand a chance. I havent seen him fight before, but I liked the pink umbrella he brought at the beginning of the fight.